My buddy Dr Kaplan

sparkyx,
I don’t think that PE is guaranteed to work for 100% of all men. Some guys just can’t make gains. Furthermore, you wrote:

“Its also telling to me that you use the MDs to validate your position about pumping being ineffective, yet their postion is ALL PE is ineffective. If you use them as validation, it nullifies your position that you have achieved success with other techniques, making YOURSELF an invalid source of information.”

This tells me that you didn’t read my explanation of why I believe their views on pumping and is as invalid an argument as saying that your position that MDs are wrong about penis anatomy, and development thereof, means that you believe the MDs have invalid knowledge of the human body and therefore should not be consulted during personal bodily illness. Do you disparage modern medical science?

The medical community does have experience regarding pumping. Urologists and other doctors even distribute patient handouts regarding pumping & cock rings. But I’ll bet that very few doctors have any personal knowledge of our manual PE techniques.

So, if you had understood my argument you would know that I accept the docs’ view on pumping - not because they’re MDs - but because they have more than a little background on vacuum pumping (atleast the urological specialty). However, I believe they doubt NPE because of theory, *perhaps* based on their experience with the non-permanence of pumping.

And your comments about avocet pumping for years….he also does other forms of PE. Again, I’m speaking of pumping exclusively. I challenge anybody who pumps exclusively to lock up their pump for 2 months and then measure. You don’t have to become angry or defensive, just take up the challenge. In that time, I lost < 1mm length & 1mm girth (erect, of course). Right now I’m 19 days into a 4-month break and have lost nothing at all (yet).

Hey Sparky,

You almost lost me with that opening, but you had a nice closing.

Pumping is kind of an art form to get it right. It’s one of those deals where less is more and more is less.

If you try to use the power of the pump with high pressure techniques, you get the illusion you are making fast gains, but upon quitting the illusion disappears and you go away distraught.

But if you use low pressure and realize that just like in any other PE technique, the process is slow and takes time, then the results begin to build with time and cement as you go. Sure, you can never maintain the full after pump effect, but by using low pressure, the gains begin to build.

I would make a wager that there have been no medical studies of the pumping technique that is advocated here, i.e. low pressure (under 7 hg) for short periods of time (under 15 minutes) with full erection (100%) spanned over several consistent months of application.

Just as Urologists are ignorant of the other methods we are discovering work, they are ignorant of this style of pumping and the effects it can have on the penis.

I have done a little research on surgical enhancement and it does seem that when a patient has had penile augmentation with alloderm it is recommended that the patient utilize a pump. I assume that this will aid additional expansion and also improve blood circulation in the new implanted material that the patient receives in the girth enhancement process. I guess the only way to really know is to actually ask the surgeon that prescribes a pump why he has come to this conclusion. Anyways just my two cents.

I haven’t seen any of the studies, I would like to understand them though. Since most recommendations from Dr’s regarding pumps are for ED, what techniques are they prescribing? For instance, (1) session at 10hg for 10 minutes? Because that wouldn’t seen to do anything for Enlargement.

For me, that is the basic question. How are these Dr’s telling patients how to use the pump.

For ED the usually recommendation is to do what many of us are already doing for size - shorter sessions in the tube, 10 min. or less, and at moderate HG pressure. This inflation/deflation cycle sort of mimics the natural nocturnal erection pattern of 4 - 5 erections a night.

Not all urologists are ignorant of the benefits of pumping. Mine suggests it for ED and told me not to be surprised if my cock got bigger if I did take up pumping.

sparkyx, Gains in length and in girth from pumping alone DOES not work. As I have explained before on this site. What pumping did for me, and that’s all that I can relate too. It provided me with a large dick, both in length, and girth. After a session of pumping for an hour at 6gh I would have a great looking cock. An hour after each session my cock went down to it’s normal size, and after pumping 4 times a week for about four years, I could not get an erection, if I laid off pumping for a month or so, my erection came back to normal.

I believe avocet, when he say’s he has made gains from pumping, and other members of this forum. All those that have made gains, have applied little pressure for short periods, and then they did PE. So when you look at pumping from this point, then it seems that you can make gains. But like you, I deify that anyone can make gains from pumping alone. So please take whatever Kaplan say’s tells you with a large pinch of salt. All he wants is your MONEY.

pete,

I agree that nobody is going to make significant, permanent gains by merely using a pump. But I wanted to say, about Kaplan, that I was surprised how many different web sites that con man was running. In one of those links I provided, by the FDA, they mentioned a bunch of them. So, he has this racket going under several different URLs.

I did.

One thing I think speaks in favor of pumping is that it is still around. When people figure out something is a scam, it dies pretty fast. Pumping has been around for years.

Avocet’s original gains were from pumping alone…if I remember correctly.

Thunder just stated he did.

Are you going to insist they didn’t? Or is your point that it is not permanent?

Word.

I said “significant, permanent gains.” But, that’s subjective, I suppose. However, you didn’t mention any length gains, only saying “I gained girth from pumping, and I didn't lose it after stopping for over a month, long before I had a clue how to jelq, or any other exercise for that matter.”

I apologize for not defining my terms - “significant” or “permanent.” Furthermore, I’m not sure that any PE is “permanent.”

- w a d

Does this mean we agree that pumping can lead to significant, relatively (to pe) permanent gains?

Or must we first define “significant”?

Wad,

Is that you benching 405 x 2 in your avatar?
If so that is a great lift and congrats on that. 315 has been my max x 2 and it felt great.

I think, just like bodybuilding, that PE correlates very closely to what we see with muscle and body definition. If left alone long enough you will see your gains slowly fade away.

I saw this prior to PE, my unit was about a 1/2 longer in my 20’s than it was now in my 40’s before starting PE. I learned about the old tightening ligs and now am seeing reversal of that situation.

I think one aspect of pumping that is probably most beneficial, which avocet8 has eluded to, is the increased vascularity that pumping brings.
I always had a “smooth” unit before pumping, even after several months of jelqing and stretching, and now have a much more veiny look and feel to the unit. I believe this can be nothing but a good thing, allowing better, clearer blood flow to the penis. I also believe the better blood flow has given me a much better hang, rarely shrink up anymore and never have the “turtle” look anymore, from which I used to suffer alot.

Just more food for thought.