PE4F Pumping at Full Vacuum

Again, no rules set in stone. 50/50 works well for me. But you could to 90/10, or 10/90. I’ve tried both. And the ratio will vary for me even within a given workout. I just go by feel.

One of the great things about PE4F pumping is incorporating it into the old as dirt pumping style of doing a pump set, with manuals in between, and repeat. With PE4F pumping, you can do 10-20 seconds at pressure. Then do manuals. Then go back in. As I will expand on later, this style greatly reduces lymph buildup.

It’s basically a noisy small electric motor. Mine is a 1/2 HP motor I think. The vibrations probably carry more than the sound. I suspect my apartment building neighbors can tell when it’s on. But that it is not very annoying. Probably sounds like a quiet hum to them.

I think my first cheapo pump bit the dust due to overheating, just my suspicion. These things get rather hot, and my first one got way hotter than the second one. With a fan added into the design I think the sound box would work great.

I just put mine on a big book on the bed. And that seems to muffle a lot of the vibration.

It is definitely a great way to end a workout.

For heat, I just warm up and do the workout with the IR lamp. Keeps things reasonably warm. A heating pad around the tube would provide more heat, couldn’t hurt.

Yep, cooling must be taken into consideration. It’s funny, because it would take a only a few hours to design and build, not that complex. Just need to eliminate line of sight to the pump and incorporate a small night stand fan into the mix.

If you live alone, not such a stretch to build and have sitting around.

Yes, decoupling the pump is definitely a plus.

Just shining some light on PE4F’s discovery. Hoping to make it more accessible, maybe rewrite the rules on high pressure.

Or do.

:flame:

I’m all for learning. It’s why I’m asking all the questions I wanted to ask PE4F. Because, I suspect that at the end of a good IPR set that this pumping could be incredibly beneficial if properly performed. I always show the best gains (in any of my comparatively few IPR sets) right after heating a tube and running it at high vacuum. But, if you read my log, I have to run it like so:

7.5HG 6 minutes to get the tube adequately warm
10HG 1 minute
12.5HG 1 minute
15HG 1 minute

Which is just a caricature of what PE4F pumping is meant to be applied as. But, it’s what I have so far.

And I think if instead, I could maybe run it 50/50 at between 5-7HG up to around 20HG for 20 seconds at a time for 2 or 3 minutes total I’d have much more effective post workout expansion and inflammation to work with. It’s why I keep asking about how effective a gauge like this: https://www.ama … /dp/B00QXXIWGW/ would be when applied to the tube. Then, calculating a workout would be much easier. This is my ultimate goal here. If I were to give this a try, I’d need the ability to have a hard understanding of the pressures I’m using so I can make the workouts relatively repeatable.

This is where I want to go with these questions.

Lol, I just see the next Thunders thread “I tried high pressure pumping and my cock is stuck in my Dyson vacuum cleaner, need help now, only serous replies please….!”

Fast and excessive lymph fluid build up.

Another one of the drawbacks of high pressure pumping.

The lymphatic system has no central circulatory pump like the cardiovascular system. It’s more or less moving around by osmosis. And so the rate at which it builds up in the penis from pumping is directly related to the pressure at which one pumps. So high pressure, faster fluid build up.

The time required to pack the pump at a certain pressure can be a good indicator of gains occurring, but lymph build up in and of itself is entirely a liability in my perspective. It acts like a cushion, decreasing the forces on the target tissues.

Excessive lymph build up looks bad, and it’s probably not great for you either. It takes a while to drain, and it can limit how soon one can do their next workout. I think it can also contribute to skin pain around the donut area, and in the glans, by further stretching the skin.

Pumping at full vacuum magnifies all these problems. The rate of lymph fluid build up, and the overall amount at the end of the workout, are both greater than with normal pumping.

One of the positives maybe, is that the lymph can dampen the intensity of high pressure.

Overall though, it’s a liability. I see two ways to deal with it.

One is to have a well fitting tube. This is what PEforFun recommends. And I think it’s essential if you’re going to do any kind of flaccid or semi-flaccid pumping at high pressure. Mega lymph is going to happen, but at least a well fitting tube limits how much builds up.

The second way, and it’s pretty amazing if you ask me, is to pump erect and pull out of the tube every 10 - 60 seconds. And just do some light manuals. Even just edging. The result is very little lymph build up. Shockingly little.

There are a few things going on. One is that pulling out of the tube completely gives time at normal pressure. Remember that there is a partial pressure with PE4F pumping, even when your thumb is off the hole. So if you never leave the tube, there’s a constant one way street for lymph to build up. Spending half the workout out of the tube gives that lymph time to flow backward out of the penis (because there’s an osmotic gradient in that direction due to the build up in the penis).

Next is regularly refreshing the erection. Being erect limits the amount of lymph that can build up, in a similar way that having a well fitted tube does. There is less space for it. If you just stay in the tube the whole time, it’s at best a partial erection. By refreshing it every 20-60 seconds, it maintains a high erection level while in the pump.

And then it’s also preventing lymph build up by just massaging it. Preventing it from clumping up in the donut area.

When I get done with a 25 minute workout using the 10-20 seconds in the tube / 10-20 seconds out the tube and refreshing erection - there is so little lymph that I could hang an hour or two later if I wanted to. It’s about as much lymph as if I were pumping at 3”Hg instead of 30”Hg. It’s really amazing.

So I think it’s clear which style I favor. That said, there may be some advantages to pumping semi flaccid in a well fitted tube for gains purposes. To each his own. But if we’re talking about the safest and least negative side effects way of doing PE4F pumping, it is definitely by manually refreshing the erection between each cycle. If you don’t use that style, your unit will come out looking like the pillsbury doughboy.

Blood spots.

Apart from glans blistering, and the pain at the pubic bone from improper padding, blood spots is the only other injury I’ve seen.

I got them a more earlier on, when I was doing semi-flaccid pumping. Also more likely to show up if I don’t do a warm-up. And also longer times at full pressure, or not fully warming up to those longer times before doing them - can cause spots.

I almost never get them anymore. Very small ones show up the first workout back after not having done this for a while. But they are gone within hours or by the next day. It’s partly conditioning - the capillaries adjust over time. Which is why I still get the spots first time back. It’s also part technique - the refresh-erect style protects the capillaries somehow. Blood spots are not an issue anymore. You might have to make your own adjustments around this, but those are the main ideas on how to navigate them.

That pretty much covers all the negatives I can think of that are associated with high pressure pumping.

To sum it all up. With PE4F pumping, after a little while learning technique, you can pump with no pain, high circulation, high forces, low lymph build up, no skin damage, and no discoloration.

One of the best parts about high pressure pumping, is that you will pump to a greater size than you can with low pressure pumping. Significantly greater. Maybe you can get there by low pressure pumping for hours. I don’t know I haven’t tried that. High pressure will get you there in minutes, basically however long it takes you to warm-up to full pressure, and you will be within several millimeters of the maximum length you can achieve in the pump.

So the pitfall is that as the session goes on, you will gain those remaining millimeters. When I started out, I had the temptation to go for a new max in the tube by extending the session length. Or by doing longer holds at full pressure than my skin was telling me I could do. These are sure ways to get, excessive lymph, blood spots, and skin damage.

It’s possible to pack the tube very quickly with high pressures. Especially if it fits well. And if you keep going in the session, the pack line will creep up the glans. This elongates the glans while squashing it, which may seem like getting a new “max” measurement in the tube, but it’s very bad for the skin of the glans. The skin will get raised up, maybe giving another millimeter. Again, a false “gain” that will begin tempting a blister.

When I started out, I followed this style, and I eventually got a raised area of skin on the glans that was not a blister, and it took over a year to go back to normal. So just end the session way before that. It’s easy not to go there, just realize that those are fake “gains” in the tube. Keep sessions to 20-25 minutes, or whatever point your skin, or lymph level, tells you it’s time to stop, it is plenty of a workout.

The other pitfall is longer times at full pressure. Longer on cycles within the workout so to speak. With a proper warm up, and some acclimation going on throughout the workout, it gets easier to do longer times at full pressure. I don’t time it, but I’ve probably done 2 minutes before, maybe 3. Nothing really bad happens, higher cycle times just result in more lymph build up, lower circulation, skin pain, etc. It’s really a balance you have to decide for yourself. I still do sets of 20-60 seconds sometimes toward the end of workouts. But the vast majority of my sets are 10-20 seconds.

Lower cycle times still give plenty of time at high pressure. All the smaller cycles add up to some serious work, but without all the negatives.

I remember doing dynamic pumping, alternating between 10 hg and 1-2-3 hg during rest. It looked like length in the tube was going up quickly. I never saw any interest in going beyond 10 hg, then I’d get a feeling of intense pressure without expanding any further, only the glans struggled to expand one or two millimeter as you described before. It’s possible that if done often the penis would adapt to the stress so that to get the same effects one would need to use higher hg, but I after a few weeks I did not notice such a pattern.

Did you ever try to (tightly?) wrap (silicone sleeves folded on themselves etc..) some areas and see if the free ones can be further expanded?

Get a load of this, from the link in this post: xenolith - What do we think about IPR?

The researchers used a “Flexercell FX-4000 Tension Plus System” to create the vacuum…sounds like the Mr. SuperFantastic pump :D

Looks a heck of a lot like what a PE4F strain vs. time plot would look like eh?

I really do recommend reading that linked journal article; it literally reads like an investigation of the mechanism of growth of the IPR PE protocol…

xeno

Walter I have done something a bit like that. I use a Mr Fantastic water pump with silicone sleeves to prevent excessive fluid build up. I also use a condom to cover the glans with baby powder underneath to prevent blisters. I was pumping in the range 2 - 14” Hg but recently reduced it to 2- 10” Hg after still getting an occasional blister. I have found my unit’s ability to resist blister formation seems to vary a bit and have not worked out why but suspect it might relate to the number of sessions I did.

I have used overlapping sleeves from time to time (two short sleeves) and the cylinder sealing ring adds extra compression at the base. Have not noticed any difference from this.

Anyway I got initial good girth gains from this technique going from 5” MSEG to a cemented 5.5” fairly quickly but have little more since. However the approach has enhanced my EQ which is the main reason I am now persisting with it.

6hg for 8 min -> 10hg for 2 min.

Do it for 30 min.

It works.