Ligament ache pain, good or bad?

LOL, at a second read I see my answer is not that clear. Let me sum it up this way: if you have any doubt that what you are feeling is good or bad for gains, probably it is bad. PE is not bodybuilding. Hope this helps.

I see. You stretch or hang in your routines?
Right, fatigue is not painful, I understand this much. The way I understand it is that fatigue is the body’s last signaling mechanism telling you that a tendon has been under a stretch for to long, and it is about to become damaged. The next step is pain. Thats was at least my understanding of Foundations for Osteopathic Medicine - Google Books
I have to be clear on my "ache" though - it is not painful, it doesn’t burn, and there is no pain when I massage the area or move around vigorously.

Are you saying that I am supposed to feel nothing at all as a consequence of stretching/hanging?

I might be out of line here, but I think that trying to achieve length gains from the ligaments, and getting gains from jelqing/pumping/clamping are quite different, so I’d rather just focus my question on ache in the ligaments.

Is it really true this generalization that you make - people who preach a need for ache gain length slower than those who preach no-pain? (Once again I need to be clear that my "ache" is not painful or burning)
Anyone else care to chime in?

Thank you for your opinions, I’m thinking carefully of this subject.

I can’t remember what growing pains felt like :(
I feel this “ache” almost constantly. Its almost as if someone had placed a weight on that area, so that it is pushing on it, just making me aware that “something is there”. It is definitely not a sharp pain. If I focus on something, like reading, I forget its there.
Massaging the area does not cause pain. Stretching the penis down increases the sensation, but still not painful.

What is your verdict - good or bad type, according to your philosophy?

What gains and in how long have you made, following this method?

I agree that PE is not bodybuilding. I know about the pains from bodybuilding since I work out regularly. And this “ache” is nothing close to that.

But I can’t agree on your first statement and I’ll explain why: I just don’t know enough yet. Example: If the early man think its bad to travel to far on the earth, because he might fall off (earth is flat he thinks), then by your logic he should stay where he is. That is not good, because he would never discover the secrets that he would if he kept going.

It’s not being flat or not that will prevent you from falling, but gravity. ;)

Your link directs me to a blank page. Anyway, to answer your question: those who always speak about fatigue, aching, pain etc. - yes, they seem always to be hangers; and I bet you plan starting hanging as early as you can. Other people never seems worried about these kind of things - if they feel they need rest, most of the time they rest. When they don’t rest, most of the time they regret not having rested.

Hangers are also the sole guys, that I know, who seem convinced that stretching ligaments is the key for gains. This is actually false. It is as demonstrated as it can be that potential gains through ligament stretching are about 1/4” EL at most for the vast majority of people.

I still have to understand what kind of discomfort you have though. Earlier you said ‘a dull pain’, now you say it isn’t even an ache. So how can people answer your question?

Basically john, you are manual stretching, not hanging. So aching will only be coming from doing too much too soon. It is still safe to stretch gently while you have the current aching. But you don’t need it and don’t want it if manual stretching.

You don’t need it for hanging either, but it’s useful for hangers if they increase the weight or time and get a bit of dull tiredness because it lets them know they are not using a weight that is way too light to have any effect. But you don’t need ache to grow - if you understand the way collagen re-structures in response to load, you have to let it recover for it to adapt - constantly stressing it without letting it recover will not allow it to adapt/grow.

I’m just telling my personal experiences from PE. I repeat, I never had gains without fatigue. I don’t know why you take it so personally. Now you are comparing hanger gains vs manuals/other types of PE. Well, for me the difference is close to 1.5” inches. All gains from hanging, nothing from extender, ads, pumping, stretching, clamping, jelqing, ulis, horses, plumped bends etc.

Also, I have gained more than 1” EL from stretching the ligaments. Deal with it. How do I know this? I can see and feel the ligaments on the shaft, they were not there pre-PE. My dick was not closer to my navel after those 1” lig gains. If it’s from tunica, my dick should be closer to my navel now. The gains also stopped when the ligament FATIGUE stopped.

Fatigue on the ligaments can feel like dull ache, or like light sprain. Tunica fatigue feels different. When you hit fatigue, you know it.

Sounds good to me. I have gained almost 1.5” BPEL over the years. Almost all from the BTC angle. I have wasted too much time with PE that didn’t work for me. I have also had two long breaks(+2 years).

I’m not saying that you need that feeling to gain but I need.

I realize that I might have been unclear with my choice of words. English is not my native language. And even if it was, I’m sure that “ache” means different things to individuals. That is why I’ve also been asking others to help me assess this “ache/pain/sensation”.

If ligament gains only contribute 1/4” EL, why are there hangers who have gained 2” and more? Is it due to gains in the length of the tunica albuginea? Then after a while, using the “ache is good” philosophy or not, I shouldn’t hang or stretch down/BTC?

This is the most accurate description I’ve been able to articulate so far: I feel this “ache” almost constantly. Its almost as if someone had placed a weight on that area, so that it is pushing on it, just making me aware that “something is there”. It is definitely not a sharp pain. If I focus on something, like reading, I forget its there.
Massaging the area does not cause pain. Stretching the penis down increases the sensation, but still not painful.

By no means am I experienced at this hanging. I’m doing it and if I had a dull ache like you describe I would stop for a while and continue with less weight. How much are you hanging and are you warming up? See with manual stretching you don’t have a way of measuring cause and effect. That is why I started hanging. It is scary to think of breaking your schlong! :(

Personally, I don’t see the point in making a difference in technique used (manual stretch or hanging) since the wanted effect is the same.

Perhaps you want to take a little time to explain to me how collagen restructures in response to load? I think that could help me a lot! If you don’t feel that you have the time, perhaps you could provide me with a good link to explain it?
When you say that “stressing it without letting it recover will not allot it to adapt/grow” - how does that apply to ADS? My understanding of ADS is that it allows the tissues to adapt/grow since the tissues recover in the elongated state, “filling in the blanks”. Is this wrong? Please tell me about how collagen re-structures in response to load!

I’m currently starting to lean towards that a slight “ache” is a sign that you are in the far end of the “risk scale” but that it is a useful sign for determining what frequency/intensity your dick can handle.

Marinera, I forgot to repost the link: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kZHk444tr8wC&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq=plastic+ deformation+ligaments&source=web&ots=Pmz358qcN8&si g=hTVT2zg475fD11jyeczKprnzLrI&hl=en#v=onepage&q=pl astic%20deformation%20ligaments&f=false

Yes. That or some extraordinary phisiologic trait. I have to say the sole convincing photos of someboy who gained 2”+ in length are the ones of Bennet8, who did almost only manual fulcrum stretches, which don’t target the ligs at all. I don’t have seen all the pics on this forum though (I would be tempted to say ‘Of course’).

Stretching down is the best angle to target the dorsal side of the tunica, which is the harder to elongate since it is the thicker. Stretching BTC is basically stretching down plus using your body as a fulcrum, if it is clear what I mean; so what said for stretch down stands for BTC.

I never felt anything like that. If you push gently on the ‘aching’ area with your fingers, what do you feel?

I picked up something important from this post and I have to ask about it: when you were unable to fatigue your ligaments, did the dull ache immediately after/day after also disappear? Is that when your gains stopped?

I’m not going to start trying to understand tunica fatigue just yet :)

I’m not hanging, I’m doing manual stretches. Morning routine:
Warm up with a rice sock for ~10 min.
20 minutes manual 30-sec stretches. Straight out and Straight down/BTC.
10 min rice sock.
120 lubed jelqs.
10 min rice sock.

Evening:
10 min rice sock
15-20 min manual 30-sec stretches, SO/BTC alternating.
10 min rice sock