Is LESS more, or is MORE more?

Same concepts apply…try WHATEVER and assess the results. If you are doing it right, you should see weekly gains.

I once read an interview about a CEO that supports this comment.

Interviewer: So how did you manage to become so succesful?
CEO: I learnt from experience.
Interviewer: And how did you get this experience?
CEO: From making mistakes.

Moral of the story?

Sometimes the only way to learn what works best for you is to try, fail and try again.

As for the Thread Is LESS more, or is MORE more?, I had poor success with More is More and have changed to Less is More. So far so good. Personal experience tells me I’m not ready for More is More so it’s best for me to stick with Less.

Good topic sparkyx, agree with your conclusions.

Did you ever find a solution to this problem? What was your sweet spot?

Yeah, the real insanity comes in when you keep doing the same thing and hope for a different outcome. This pretty much applies to everything in life, try WHATEVER and see if it works, if it doesn’t DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

I remember when I used to hand my brain over to the “experts” in bodybuilding. I would do their “recommended” routine, and as the weeks went by with no results other than getting weaker and more joint soreness, I kept going on “faith” in the “experts”…HOW STUPID!!!

But really, don’t we do this in almost all aspects of our lives? Give your ability to think over to the “experts”? One of the wisest things you can do in life is realize that EFFECTIVENESS is a great measure of truth. If its correct, it should WORK! Now some things might take a bit longer to see some progress, but even in PE, if you aren’t seeing changes at least week to week…you won’t be getting them.

Like in wt training, what was I thinking? That I can NOT make progress all year, then at Christmas the “muscle fairy” would drop down and give me 20 lbs of mass? I WASN’T thinking!

Same with PE. If you aren’t seeing at least small changes week to week, when do you think it will happen? At Christmas and a visit by the “dick fairy”? Now granted, I believe in a “break-over point”, which is it might take a while for your conditioning to get to the point where you can use enough time and force to cause tissue changes, but even then, you should be seeing gains in EQ.

So, bottom line is try more…try less, and SEE what is working for you…and DO THAT!

For strength, short intense workouts with about 5 days between workouts for that same muscle group, cycled with training by percentage. I had to experiment with sets and reps to find what worked best for me. 6 reps at about 1-2 sets to failure.

HOWEVER, no one approach would continue to work year round. I found cycling it with lower intensity workouts with more sets was necessary. I got pretty strong in most lifts with this approach, and put on some decent size.

That is very interesting. Ultimately, EQ is the indicator for how effective and how long your routine should be.

Just a few months back I posted a thread with the same title as this one. Ended up being very interesting. Im a more is more guy, but I have to ride that line perfectly. If I do too much I get negative PI’s. Too little…no growth.

Interesting, thanks for the info.

If less is one direction, and more is another, there may be a third direction- lateral.

For less is more guys, or even for more is more guys who have to watch over training, there is also the option of changing the workout while trying to maintain the same general intensity level. There are many threads about change ups and getting over plateaus by using them.

The trick is to try to judge the intensity of the new, different exercises beforehand to save time on the trial and error part. I once fooled around with “jelq seconds”. This may be useful for making the comparison between exercises. Basically it is the number of seconds under stress. So one 60 second jelq squeeze should be about the same as 20 three second jelqs. Counting one 60 second squeeze as the equivalent of about 20 jelqs has helped me add squeezes without going into over training. (I actually count a 60 second squeeze as more than 20 jelqs, about 25.)

If one were going to move to hanging, he could add up the seconds he had been manually stretching, and use that as a starting hanging time. Same way with pumping, add up the seconds he had been under stress jelqing, and start with that as the time to be in the pump. As it seems both hanging and pumping are a little more intense than jelqing/manually stretching, he could adjust accordingly to get a starting time.

Another lateral option is adjusting days on days off. PringlesCan I believe didn’t change much about his routine except for the days on/off and re-established gaining. If in fact he didn’t change the general intensity of the workouts over time, he actually changed laterally.

Yet another lateral option may simple be doing the same workout, but changing the order of the exercises. For me at least, it seems that doing a length targeted exercise after an engorgement exercise has created some sort of synergy. By synergy I mean the effectiveness is greater when the moves are done in a certain order than if they are done in another order. Many workouts start with stretching and then move to jelqing. Switching the two around may be a way to move laterally and get back into the growth zone. If you have established your gain zone with a workout, and then gains stop, I think changing the order may be a good thing to try first.

A final lateral move with jelqing is to change the jelqing technique. Erection level I think is a good place to start. Going about 30% down or up with it may kick start something. I would say the higher the erection level, the more stressful the jelq, so adjust the number of jelqs with that in mind. Going with lower erection jelqs and pulling straight down got me out of a long stall.

Exploring these lateral options may be especially important for less is more guys. We may have difficulty staying above the point where growth happens, (break over point), and under the over training point. We have one less direction to go as doing less may put us almost at no workout. Like if we were getting gains with 20 jelqs, tried 30 or 40 and found that this put us into over training. Going down to 10 jelqs is actually an option, but if that doesn’t work you are left with going up, and you already found that you can’t go up. BUT, you may be able to go sideways!:-)

Good post ER!

Have you ever tried cycling before?

Say if your gains have stopped at 20 jelqs, so you move up to 30 jelqs for a short period, and then drop down to 10 jelqs for “active recovery”. Then, start over with 20 jelqs.

And I like stretching after jelqing, also. Just like stretching after working out a muscle. It supposedly helps with recovery.

I like stretching after jelqing too.

I have tried this, Sparkyx was calling them “waves” and something else, I don’t remember. I can’t say that it was especially effective for me, but I still think it holds promise.

I also have tried “active recovery”. Many will probably say this is the way to go as it is kind of that the idea behind an ADS. For me it doesn’t take the place of an actual few days off. I would consider it actually part of the training cycle, and call it light workouts being done in response to how your dicks feels from previous workouts.

I do think that cycling is definitely a lateral move to consider. Most experience at this site seems to show that it should not be way up in intensity, Sparkyx thinks like 10%. (I think, I hope he will chime in on this topic.) I know for me 50%+ was ineffective.

The one problem with cycling up and down is finding a good range. As the effects of PE are cumulative, it’s hard to know if it was the last workout, the one before that, or the combination of the two that caused negative PI’s.

My current very effective workout does involve changing each workout, so it kind of is cycling as you say. I change it according to how my penis feels, but mainly it is as follows:

-few days off 1-4 days
-medium workout within my range
-heavy workout within my range
-light workout within my range
-light workout within my range
-few days off- 1-4 days.

Hmmm… interesting. So when do you start up again after your days off? When you feel your EQ is at it’s highest? By instinct?

A bit of a high jack, but I don’t think Sparky will mind.

I start up again according to three things:

1. Measurements as explained in the quote in post 890 of my progress report, and

2. How it feels when I take those measurements. If it feels strained to pull it for a flaccid measurement, it is not recovered enough. If it feels actually kind of good, like it wants to be pulled, then it’s time to go again.

Actually the how it feels when I pull on it fully flaccid is about my main indicator of condition.

3. Life’s schedule. If my penis feels good enough, and I see that I have a forced break coming up, I might start again a little sooner than in a perfect world. But not if I am feeling on the very verge of negative PI’s.

To be honest, with my current routine, my EQ is highest when I’m the horniest. Some say that good PE can actually make you horny, I don’t know. Before this routine my EQ was often way down due to over training. Now it’s kind of like it stays above a certain level, but is not always at max. But as Sparky might point out, that is really the definition of EQ. Improved EQ is actually better EQ than when not doing any PE. Many guys, myself included, often forget this. So basically I guess I stay at or above pre-PE EQ, with waxing and waning according to how horny I am.

Due to my schedule and life, I only get to have sex at night after the kids are in bed. EQ can obviously depend on stress, energy level, etc. My erections during the day are not a good measure because I really don’t relish and encourage them, more of a hindrance to getting things done than anything.

I have also found that my horniness and subsequent EQ follows my wife’s cycle as well. I am absolutely raving for sex during her period, no matter how much masturbation or non intercourse sex we have. (We just can’t do it for most of the cycle, it hurts her due to lubrication issues. That’s opposite to me, but it is true.) I use this time to hit PE as hard as I can. And no Sparky it is not the PE that is making me horny at least in this case, I noticed long before starting PE. I firmly think that I simply can smell “it”, and it makes me horny, almost like a predator.