Warning! If you haven't gotten improved erections:

Yeah, I don’t know - while I agree with the basics of this, some specific situations come into mind.

When I’m working girth routines, the norm is to wake up with a softer, but fatter dick; I think this is part of the growth process, where the body tries to fill up your dick in another direction, which ipso-facto means your length, and total shaft is unable to achieve rock hard proportions. If I woke up and spent the rest of the day with a fatter, but softer dick, I would leave it alone until it had filled out again, but this is never my dick’s MO - what happens is, I wake up softer, but when I go to do my workout, I achieve rock-hard erections fairly easily. So what does this imply? I think what’s happening is my dick is working on getting fatter at night, and during the day, it returns to it’s normal state, albeit, just slightly larger around.

With girth, I feel there’s a push and pull that goes on with your erection quality, and to me, this is what signals growth.

I’m not sure I understand the question.

Are you asking if you keep upping it until NEG PIs kick in, or you start to grow?

I think with any change in perimeters…you have to give it time to FULLY indicate what the PIs are. I think a minimum of a week and up to 3 weeks.

At that point if you aren’t gaining, but have great EQ, an increase in time is reasonable. This is only if you don’t think toughening has become a factor. If you suspect that you have generated a lot of tissue toughening, consider a decon break.

I am not an expert on hanging, and I think hanging is one of those PEs that can be used frequently with low wt long time and stimulate growth, or shorter times with heavier wt for frank stretching.

If you are doing low force, long time it could probably be done daily and see gains. HOWEVER, if your force levels start creeping up, then it might be far more productive to hang much less frequently and possibly incorporate ADS in between hanging sessions. What the ranges are, I would only be guessing.

Regardless, I think if you wait longer BEFORE changing your perimeters, check for your EQ AND measure frequently your bpfl…you will have a chance to see what are the RESULTS of your PE.

Also remember, the the least force needed to grow is the best, in that more force causes more toughening which is counter productive.

As far as hanging goes, I think you would be wise to study Monty of PE weight fame. He achieved great results with modest hanging wt followed by PE wts. He would only hang every 3 days or so, but then used modest ADS all the rest of the time.

I’m not sure if I answered your question, if not, refine it and ask again.

If you are getting rock hard erections, that by definition is part of the definition of excellent EQ.

Erectile Quality is the observation of the categories of ease of erections, frequency, hardness, frequency of nite and morning wood. I’ve gone over this many times already.

My point is that I’ve rarely seen anyone grow who doesn’t also have excellent EQ. Excellent EQ indicates you have great hardness, can get hard with not much stimulation, increased frequency of erections, improved nite and morning wood (for you).

One thing is for sure, I’ve never heard anyone who has POOR EQ, that is growing at the same time.

The point is to move your EQ towards your best level, because it seems to be at the higher or highest levels of EQ or what is EXCELLENT for you…that most growth seems to occur.

Whether growth occurs at the very peak of your highest EQ or slightly below it, I think depends on the individual, and the more feed back I get on it from guys like yourself, the more intelligent conclusions I can draw from the information.

It may well be that most growth occurs when you stress your dick when its near its highest level, causing it to drop down slightly, and the rebound is when growth occurs…but at this point I’m just speculating.

That’s exactly what I’m saying. I think you need to stress it to the point where - not to make it anthropomorphic, but I’m about to do just that :) - it feels the need to expand when it has the chance, ie at night while you sleep (the thicker, softer penis,) and yet keep it’s integrity through the day, when it needs to be used; the trick is to find that spot, right before the breaking point, where you’re doing just enough damage that your body can repair on a nightly basis.

We need to understand that the body does not see anything wrong with the dick it made us - we do. In order to increase our size, we need to (for lack of a better word) convince our body that it is adaptive to expand. I know all of this sounds obvious, but I think if you really think about this, we can all see what Sparky is getting at; we want our body to think, “I could deal with this stimulus better by expanding slightly,” rather than, “ZOMG!!1 I need to protect my reproductive capabilities immediately - do whatever we can to save the important stuff and abandon ship.”

Maybe that’s what you’re getting at Sparky? Ha, I dunno.

You’re right, the body is rather adverse to expanding the dick.

You really have to slip in between its responses to stress and rest, to find the right combination to unlock growth…but we know it can be done. I’m just trying to make it a little more of a science and reproducible.

It is like a twilight zone, your dick in this realm is less likely to resist. Get it in to the twilight zone. I’m finding that fowfers get it there for me. Makes jelqing easier which I’m about to do in a few minutes.

Spark, after reading the big gainer thread by wadzilla, looking at mems routine, reading bibs old threads, dld’s routines, and adding what we’ve been discussing here it looks as if a few principles can be drawn. The best routine should be: 1) as close to every day as possible, 2) at least 3 minute hold stretches for tunica work 3) leave us with great EQ or only one day away from it. Granted these are very general, but these seem to be able to be drawn from all these sources and these are IMO pretty credible sources.

Pepper

I never considered #2 as a principle.

I am doing the Big gainer routine right now, but I’m skipping the stretch. I’ll let you know if a couple months if you are right about the 3 minute hold.

How many 3 minute hold do you think is critical…one per day? I’m assuming its accumulated time, like jelquing will have a certain amount of “time under load”, and a continuous hold isn’t needed…I may be wrong.

I also believe in a BOP or (Break Over Point), the point at which your stimulus to recovery point is sufficient to begin to grow.

For example, what if you need to be doing at least 15 minutes of daily jelquing to begin to stimulate growth, but it takes 2 months to work up to that level and keep good EQ? What will happen is you will just see improving EQ (if you aren’t over training) for 2 months then “bingo” you will start to see growth. But what frequently happens is guys get frustrated and begin to jump around with all kinds of different routines, or adds so much PE that they push themselves up and out of good EQ.

I think we are getting closer and closer to a real comprehensive approach that can work for most guys, if not damn near all.

I got the 3 min. thing from the following: Bib-hanging is always at least 3 min., Memento’s 5 sets of 3 min. holds a-stretching over a fulcrum, DLD liked to fulcrum stretch over PVC pipe for at least 3 min., and I recently read an article on muscle stretching where 3-5 min. holds were vastly superior to less time held regarding lenghtening of muscle tissue, I understand that the penis is not muscle but perhaps the principles can apply. I usually stretch my hamstrings for 2, 1 min. sets, then I tried 1, 3 min. and got drastically better length. Also a 3 min. hold would require less force to be able to hold the grip, the less force the better. I’m trying to find a common thread in all these success stories. What do you think?

If your going to do big gainer and not stretch, are you going to jelq only? I was thinking of doing the opposite, I gain girth easy no matter what I do, so I was going to do 3, 3 min. holds per day to start, every day.

Pepper

Its worth looking at. Who knows, maybe 3 minutes is a magic amount…stranger things have happened.

That sounds good. You do the stretch, I’ll do the jelque…because I mostly want to add girth myself. Keep track and let me know how you are doing. Make note of your EQ too.

Sounds good.

Pepper

Just some thoughts of mine that I wish to post here at Thunders…may as well do it here…its somewhat appropriate.

It just amazes me the range of force that different guys can use. I constantly read posts where guys stretch for 20 minutes, jelque for another 20, then finish with 3 sets of pumping and clamping for another hour…and then have rock hard erections…just amazing!

If I was to do 1 tenth of that workout, my dick would look like a dimple! Yet, some guys can do a huge amount of PE, and still do well with it!

The point is, if you are one of those guys who finds his dick turtling up after 5 minutes of jelquing…don’t despair…you can still see good gains.

Just forget what others are doing, pay attention to your own EQ and PIs…adjust your routine in response to them, use frequent measurement of your bpfl…and make slow incremental increases to your PE as you maintain your best or near best EQ…and you will get gains.

It may take longer than other guys, but once you start to gain, you will do fine.

Excellent thread sparkyx!

I am using these principals as guidelines for my pumping routine and got very good expansion in my first two sessions. I have just started pumping again and have incorporated my 3 snap leather cock ring (thanks for the tip glandmaster!). Till now the frequency has been one day on, one day off based on my PIs (I pump the day I wake up with a morning erection).

My routine is 3 x 20min pumping with a constriction sleeve over my penis head and a piece of the anti turtle sleeve right below (to cover my retracted foreskin). I pump at 4-5HG and only do some light massaging/jelqing between sets. On the third set I pump without the sleeves. Right after I do some light massaging then put on the leather cock ring (BTB) and keep it on for about an hour (or until I have gone completely flaccid again).

I will report back in this thread as I see progress with my routine. More people should try PI and EQ-based PE and report their findings in this thread.

What is good about it is, you can apply it to what ever routine you are doing, it just helps you zero on on the AMOUNT of PE needed to get you growing.

Theoretically, I think any PE technique CAN work…its just a matter of finding out the right amount of force/time to rest ratio that WILL work for you.

There are some exceptions to that, but it revolves around BOP (break over point) and I think I’ll have to do a separte thread on that one day.

Since I have read this thread I have backed off time spent jelqing. I’m trying to maintain a three day pr week schedule. And I also backed off on time spent ballooning to around an hour only. And only balloon 2-3 days per week. And I think my EQ is great. Have had a more spontaneous erections and better morning woodies this week.