Gaining volume with Kyrpa

Hey,

pe is practiced for a couple of decades now and you criticize a lot rightfully.
But I think it is time to get down of your high horse and prove your points.
I don’t see any log of yourself.
I don’t share my results at the moment because I don’t know about the long term effects of US.

To be honest most of the guys trying US right now get newbie gains.
It is easy for most guys gaining 1-2 cm with a beginner routine done under 30 min in less than a year.

I am participating in the thundersplace community because it is the only place online that tends to recommend sane routines and not “more is more” approaches and non sense like MOS DLD SRT routines.
Maybe you should go venting there.

If you think progressive routine structures, decondition breaks, avoiding over training and plateaus by monitoring PIs, “ease into the stretch routines/concepts” and a “less is more” mindset couldn’t help and make sure that you continue to gain in the long run, you are lying to yourself.
Heat is and always was a big part for most successful pe guys and is advocated a lot.
This are the concepts that are “preached” by most successful guys around here.

US won’t magically change that because it has been proven to work by a lot of gainers.

You will need to increase time or intensity over time if you don’t do de-conditioning breaks.
Its up to you to prove that lowering intensity temporarily is more useful than going on a break.
In my case it doesn’t work. It is good for cementing, a plateau in itself.

By the way I trained in the last weeks to the point that my tunica walls collapsed in a controlled way and using US for a faster recovery rate (think steroids).
Personally I think it is a bit laughable to measure strain in the 1-3% range.
It is nice to have to get a sense of security that the experimental stuff works.
If I would have used the strain measuring method I would not have trained efficiently in the last weeks as I concentrate on volume. You use one PI, I use a lot more.

Personally I don’t think I can measure a strain increasement of 1-3% without a sensor (good example: ) or measuring volume (i.e. replacing liquid in a container).

If you want to talk about stupidity: Why don’t use a extender for US heat ? I prefer them to static loads that you apply. Extenders use springs and you can easily create a relaxed state while being max stretched out in a dynamic way (springs go back and forth taking care of extending vertically smoothly).

If you are able to execute “ease into” stretches while using US effects, I think it is a lot more efficient than your set up for gains. You don’t even factor in angles or different type of stretches (bundled, fulcrum etc).

You criticize guys like me who did the unthinkable and gain with classic “barbaric” pe approaches.

What did you gain at this point ? You only show that you can create strain in a session.
This is easily replicate able with other pe methods. There have been lots of guys doing it in the past if not all of the gainers.

I can tell you that the Kyrpa US protocol will change with time. I can already tell it is better to do a girth warm up using US and then stretch afterwards if tunica length gains are wanted after exhausting the easy to manipulate structures after the newbie phase.
The newbie phase is not sustainable in the long run in my opinion.

Mark my words: You will need progressive intensity to keep up the strain. Or change focus in cycles or do breaks if you want to apply the same intensity over and over again.

By the way I have never trained that aggressively before in my pe journey than right now because my recovery is so much faster thanks to US heat and its positive influence on my PIs.
I am on a small break right now and will continue to experiment in a couple of weeks with a diffused IPR protocol to gain girth .

It should change, as it is called progress. Which have been in deep ice for a decade in these forums. Gainers will always gain, not all of them because of the method but despite of it.

Yeah, that double stupid affirmation caught my attention too.

What I mean is, I prefer obvious succes stories as opposed to very long scientifically “proven” threads with relatively small proof for the matter at hand, sry for using such poetic language so often, English isn’t my nat lang and i often speak like in movies/cartoons I saw.

At least it’s less confusing, so that’s one reason out of more why I like those threads a lot more.

Time will tell ‘the truth’, but from life experience it looks like it’s ‘in the middle’, somehow, somewhere…love you all

I used a stupid a lot, hopefully you got the context.
I say it again emphasing more the context it was originally used, it is really stupid to put more weight, more hours cumulating the stress on the tissue if you are not in the gaining program in the first place.
Once the gains stop you take a extended break instead doing any stupid things.

I am sure those practises were already described and in my case already in use.

The US can be used as a catalyst, or a steroid like substance as you have already found out. It is not just a another source of heat. It can be used as a active tool.
Glad you are contributing, there is no progress ever if not the critical debate.

I like to have a look on this. Reading the whole paper and some of the used source papers as well, I would like to say there is more in to this than what is seen in the abstract.

First of all they were operating with dead tissue, having very different characteristics living and responding tissue has. Secondly the elastic coefficient and the tensile strength should be taken with a grain of salt as they were using isolated strips of a dead tissue affected by saline infusion and the strip off from the cavernous tissue and intracavernosal pillars etc.
Doing this kind of tests are pretty much directional anecdotes not to be taken very literally. Pulling dead strip of any piece of tissue out of the structural context would show very different to a living comparison elasticity and ,stiffness and strength.

We are stretching an organ, multilayered living organism , tissues sensing mechanical stress and responding for it by stiffening non-linearly both by the structural causes and the tissue response as well. Not to mention if we heat it to the range of thermal changes in the tissue.
The living TA in the original context can and will have way higher tensile strength. Tensile strength of TA in the slicing test varying between 375- 750 mmHG.

What they found was that during the penis in situ, artificial inflation of the erectile chambers, the statement in the abstract of having a strength of 1500 mm HG is not the whole picture.
One had herniation at 675 mmHG, three of them had 1500 mmHG and one cadaver had 2250 mmHG. 4 had penile prothesis inflated instead of the CC, their TA showed similar results. These results are in line with studies of intracavernosal pressure during erection.

The most common place the TA ruptured was not the CC surrounding TA, but the septum in the distal portion of the shaft few centimeters from the attachment of the glans, where the septum has openings between CC’s. No ruptures were found in the proximal portion of the shaft

During the full rigid erection, at the phase of the maximal tumescence when the flow has been cut and the erection is IC muscular based not vascular basis, the systolic pressure has been found to be 300 - 550 mm HG in men. Which are presumable in the range of the pressure easily reached with clamping manoeuvres.
During coitus because of the buckling forces even higher pressures can be reached. In one study using outside, non -invasive pressure monitoring method(clampish), they suggested even 10 times to normal systolic pressures occurring. Once again their testing setup remains speculative.

Reading some of the studies available, it seems that all of studies should not be done with medical staff present only. The engineering basis do have severe flaws in some of them studies.

Yes, I know ;)
You progress at a very fast rate.
But Tutt is going into another direction.
Maybe he will prove that his style works, but I think it is a waste of time.
I don’t know, something triggered me in his posts.
Especially regarding the low level of PE he is practicing without results.
A hypothesis shouldn’t mislead others and devalue established approaches when it is not proven to work at this point.

I call this mental masturbation.
Especially regarding my own history of extender work where I reached at least 8-12 mm additional temp bpfsl in the extender without retracting at all (relaxation state in combination with excessive heat at 1100-1300gr tension) without the use of US.
He creates something like 4mm with much higher loads. Impressive.
At one point I didn’t consider my extender set not successful if I wasn’t adding at least 10 mm in the process.
He talks about a steel cord in the past that I experienced myself when I over trained in the beginning.
Classic PE is not obsolete and not every approach is stupid ;)

Indeed. I was very skeptical at first in the beginning. But when I started using it at higher frequency and with better massage patterns, my mind changed too.

Gonna do a reduced a IPR cycle in the next weeks.

1 day hardcore US workout+extreme tunica work (length+girth) until wall failure (inspired by tiger trap)
2 days keeping expansion up with low level intensity exercises (ie all night cr )
6-10 days off

repeat with slightly higher intensity

Without US such a routine would not be possible for me ! I would need to work my way up in 7-9 sessions with 2 days off to generate something similar. Now I can create the same in one session without negative PIs.

This is new territory for me and this routine just a curiosity thing to be honest.

If this works I will continue for 7-9 cycles.

Maybe I will introduce dmso too applied via urethra. We will see.

Sorry, I re-read the last posts and I misinterpreted a lot.
To be honest I am drunk and really hung over today. I don’t drink at all in general, but yesterday my best friends first illegitimate son was born and he wasn’t allowed there. Long story.
So we drank a lot. A lot !!!

I am sobering up right now and regret what I have written. Lots of misconceptions.
Can a mod delete my posts ?
It is incoherent gibberish.

Sorry Tutt, you didn’t deserve my drunk ramblings. Hopefully you accept my apology.
I am really ashamed of me right now.

Well let him finish the first and second run first. That would be indicating the direction, not proving any hypothesis though.
If some of the statements seem to be bold, I know there is some substance behind it as well.

The plateau, to be honest no one has got it right to date, every approach has been a case of better guessing.
It would require more than anecdotes to be solved.

For me it has come realistic that I should have been taking longer breaks between the elongation periods. I¨ll be wiser next time out.

By the way, talking about the steel cord. I have never achieved more than 7 to 8 mm of strain in the lenghtening exercises even with the heat.
Without heating absolutely no more than 4mm is available, no matter what. And certainly no over training causing it in this case. It is all genetic.

I am willing to bet that I would have never gained any length without the extra 3-4 mm strain US induced heat have provided.
And there are guys over there experiencing the same with traditional PE right now.

To date that strain has been enough to trigger the growth, maybe not any longer, I don´t know ,guess we will see once I get into it again.

I am not much in to any theory or hypothesis myself, I keep doing the applied “science” , results will prove for themselves.
Trying to prove something without histological examinations and 20-100 people group is waste of time and most probably forced to fit in to scenario.
As I think if not all but most of the theories in PE are , forcefully fit to someones agenda.

Only thing build on hypothesis in my approach is the decon protocol I am in. It is highly theoritical protocol.

Every once in the while someone puts out their hypothesis or routines on this wall, as I believe you just did as well. And thats ok.

I will continue my steps and doing the tweaks I have considered necessary and I believe anyone reading these can sort it out who is talking and when.

Keep on hammering as you were. I will keep checking the girth development of yours. It S aul good man.

Ok so..

Which US ultrasound device did you use again??

I am sweeping the shaft with two US PRO 2000 2nd edition. 1 MHz 1.6 w/cm^2 BNR 5:1 ERA 4 cm^2
It is not the ideal but it is okey technically, affordable and using two simultaneously it is quite effective.

There are better equipment available but not at this price. Just recently commented about three of the one step higher machines.

What I sometimes miss with this is the 3 MHz, I suspect it should work better on the distal portion of the shaft.
And working with one transducer only this is missing some perfrmance, 2 w/cm^2 would make the job easier.

@pe_pe… Even if your weren’t drunk, you are still welcome to voice your opinions. No offense taken. I think whenever someone makes claims, the burden of proof is on them. I would point out, I’m not insisting that my proposed method will be better. My educational background and previous experience in PE, in combination with work done by Kyrpa, Manko, and others, has given me enough of a foundation to submit a hypothesis that I can test on myself. I readily acknowledge that I won’t be able to do a proper trail due to lack of participants.

To everyone generally…

I apologize for the technical nature of the posts and I understand that it can be frustrating to read technical jargon when you just want someone to give the layman nutshell version. We are simply not at that point yet with this. For months I’ve had private conversations here that are often far more technical than these public posts. In fact, I had originally told Kyrpa that I would not be posting here but rather just sharing my finding with him and he was free to share them at his discretion. I went another direction recently and felt that others might benefit from the 1st hand version of the research. So I began posting here again. Please keep in mind that attempting to share technical research over a public forum requires a fair amount of knowledge compression. Even with that compression, the posts become very verbose. To present everything in layman terms with enough detail that the findings would be clear and useable to Kyrpa and others would require too much time and introduce unnecessary ambiguity. It’s like when you hear people using terms like ‘proximal’ and ‘distal’… Those unfamiliar with the terms find them annoying, but they are very precise and don’t introduce the type of confusion that comes from words like ‘top’ ‘bottom’ ‘front’ ‘back’… It will be very nice if we get to a point where we can just say, ‘Do this… exactly like this…’ completely in layman terms. In the meantime we have to prove the concepts. As Kyrpa says, the world of PE has been stuck on physiologically inefficient methods for quite some time now.

Just as an FYI… I have experience with manual routines, ADS, and some brief clamping experiments a couple years back. To put things in perspective, I gained about 19mm BPFSL, 13mm BPEL, and 2mm MEG over a 6-9 month period. Most of that came in the first 60 days and it was very obvious to me that those methods are setup in a way that guarantees a plateau. It is pretty much a physiological certainty. These statements are not meant to offend anyone, but there is widespread consensus across the scientific community regarding what happens to a living ligamentous/tendonous structure that is subject to repeated loads and strains in excess of those experienced within the normal physiological environment. Simply put, the body rapidly strengthens the structure by thickening and aligning collagen fibers. It is not just theory that this is a bad thing for PE. An analogy from real world might be helpful. Imagine pouring a new concrete driveway at your home. Typical thickness is 4” as that should meet the typical residential load requirement. If you wanted to be extra cautious, you could thicken the slab to 5”. This 25% thicker slab will be capable of supporting loads more than 50% higher. This phenomenon is common in many aspects of engineering/bioengineering. The point is that if you trigger your body to make the TA 10% thicker, that won’t be enough to even add measurable volume to your penis, but the loads required to produce a permanent elongation from that point forward will begin to go exponential. Consequently, you will read an endless stream of posts here talking about progressing from a beginner manual routine to increasingly intense stressors, and it should be obvious very quickly that the relationship is not linear. Eventually, everyone says you must take a long decon break. They are acknowledging that your body has defended itself to the point that you will no longer be able to produce any gain unless you can convince your tissues that the stress it was protecting against is no longer present. Unfortunately, collagen turnover is VERY slow compared to other tissues like skin and muscle.

The point of the research here is to determine whether it is possible to produce the ‘gains’ without triggering the body’s defense. I will be so bold as to say that I can virtually guarantee that it is not possible within the traditional realm of PE practice. Have PE practitioners been using heat for many years? Yes, and that heat certainly provides benefit vs normal cold treatments. Bad news… it is pretty much impossible to heat the TA and ligs above 39C with any externally radiated or conducted heat source; rice socks, hot water, heat pads, etc… Our penis is high blood flow, so we will literally blister our skin before we’ll get the internal structures above 39C. The penis skin is so delicate that it will begin to burn and we’ll experience excruciating pain as low as 44C. To avoid that, we’d have to keep the rice sock down to 42C which unfortunately is the optimal target temp for the TA which has a constant flow of <36C blood flowing through it. There is already scientific consensus that the collagen structure won’t change to a moldable state until 40C+. So it was up to experimenters like Kyrpa, Manko, etc to literally stick temp probes into the organ and show how it can be done via internal vibration without burning the surrounding tissues. Physiologically, there is reason to believe that stretching the TA with modest loads while heated to around 41C will at least prolong and enhance the growth period. I have always advocated for lower frequency and longer breaks between growth phases than what Kyrpa was using, because my supposition was that it will prove more effective over the long term for someone who wants to achieve very significant growth. I was hopeful that Kyrpa would show that even with his intensity the continued growth would be possible with just short rests between phases. Alas, that doesn’t appear to be the case, although his results are still very impressive so far. Others need to recognize that he has produced big growth at much lower loads and far fewer treatment hours than at least 95% of everyone on these boards. But if I am to push for lower volume and lower frequency, I have to demonstrate it.

I still suspect that there should optimally only be two 60-90 minute treatments a week over a roughly 21-24 day period, followed by a 60-90day rest. There are things going on at the cellular level supporting this suspicion. I remain hopeful that I can demonstrate a method that will at a minimum significantly extend the potential growth prior to extended decon, and do so at far fewer treatment hours than is typical in this community.

I remember reading the first threads of these new US PE studies and thinking man I wish I understood what they were thinking about. Still, you guys need to be able to communicate your findings clearly to each other and are still building the foundation of this new approach. I can only tip my hat to you guys.

Logical words, I am the first person who started my principle to not confirm that I gained 3 cm in 3 months and the reason is the principle of not excessive training on pressure per day 15 minutes an air pump and an hour of expansion only I gained 3 cm during three months rest two days followed by work three days, I learned that the pressure Excessive may not give you any result. The principle of work and rest is necessary to give space to the tissues in healing and heat. Plays a big role. I advise everyone to follow the lack of pressure in the exercise. You will achieve the best results. First, weights are not overloaded. To get results, I recommend light weights with stretching for a maximum of 3 hours to six hours a day using ultrasound heat or any other field through an infusion of no more than half an hour a day. The exercises do not split simultaneously throughout the day until they form a stretched fabric all the time for example the rubber itself. If you stretch the rubber a lot, intermittently, it will stretch. And if the place is warm, then the rubber will be stretched like that of the penis as the rubber expands with heat and shrinks with coolness. The application of heat greatly facilitates the process of stretching and healing