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Gaining volume with Kyrpa

Originally Posted by Alhowaidi
Logical words, I am the first person who started my principle to not confirm that I gained 3 cm in 3 months and the reason is the principle of not excessive training on pressure per day 15 minutes an air pump and an hour of expansion only I gained 3 cm during three months rest two days followed by work three days, I learned that the pressure Excessive may not give you any result. The principle of work and rest is necessary to give space to the tissues in healing and heat. Plays a big role. I advise everyone to follow the lack of pressure in the exercise. You will achieve the best results. First, weights are not overloaded. To get results, I recommend light weights with stretching for a maximum of 3 hours to six hours a day using ultrasound heat or any other field through an infusion of no more than half an hour a day. The exercises do not split simultaneously throughout the day until they form a stretched fabric all the time for example the rubber itself. If you stretch the rubber a lot, intermittently, it will stretch. And if the place is warm, then the rubber will be stretched like that of the penis as the rubber expands with heat and shrinks with coolness. The application of heat greatly facilitates the process of stretching and healing

The rubber analogy is quite valuable. At its core, Kyrpa’s theories suggest that the key driver of PE growth is actually the inherent viscosity of the tissues whereas traditional PE has always been hyper-focused on the elasticity . The TA shares several characteristics with common rubber, which at moderate temps might exhibit high elasticity and very high viscosity. At low temps that same material might still exhibit very high viscosity but now low elasticity. And then above a certain temperature threshold both high elasticity and low viscosity; even to the point of the elasticity becoming relatively inconsequential because the viscosity has dropped to the point of creating a more fluid material.

Through these treatments, we aim to lower the viscosity of the material to a point that we can change the dimensions of the structure without necessarily changing the elasticity. More simply, we are not stretching the penis, we are molding it.

Originally Posted by Tutt
To everyone generally…

I apologize for the technical nature of the posts and I understand that it can be frustrating to read technical jargon when you just want someone to give the layman nutshell version. We are simply not at that point yet with this. For months I’ve had private conversations here that are often far more technical than these public posts. In fact, I had originally told Kyrpa that I would not be posting here but rather just sharing my finding with him and he was free to share them at his discretion. I went another direction recently and felt that others might benefit from the 1st hand version of the research. So I began posting here again. Please keep in mind that attempting to share technical research over a public forum requires a fair amount of knowledge compression. Even with that compression, the posts become very verbose. To present everything in layman terms with enough detail that the findings would be clear and useable to Kyrpa and others would require too much time and introduce unnecessary ambiguity. It’s like when you hear people using terms like ‘proximal’ and ‘distal’… Those unfamiliar with the terms find them annoying, but they are very precise and don’t introduce the type of confusion that comes from words like ‘top’ ‘bottom’ ‘front’ ‘back’… It will be very nice if we get to a point where we can just say, ‘Do this… exactly like this…’ completely in layman terms. In the meantime we have to prove the concepts. As Kyrpa says, the world of PE has been stuck on physiologically inefficient methods for quite some time now.

Just as an FYI… I have experience with manual routines, ADS, and some brief clamping experiments a couple years back. To put things in perspective, I gained about 19mm BPFSL, 13mm BPEL, and 2mm MEG over a 6-9 month period. Most of that came in the first 60 days and it was very obvious to me that those methods are setup in a way that guarantees a plateau. It is pretty much a physiological certainty. These statements are not meant to offend anyone, but there is widespread consensus across the scientific community regarding what happens to a living ligamentous/tendonous structure that is subject to repeated loads and strains in excess of those experienced within the normal physiological environment. Simply put, the body rapidly strengthens the structure by thickening and aligning collagen fibers. It is not just theory that this is a bad thing for PE. An analogy from real world might be helpful. Imagine pouring a new concrete driveway at your home. Typical thickness is 4” as that should meet the typical residential load requirement. If you wanted to be extra cautious, you could thicken the slab to 5”. This 25% thicker slab will be capable of supporting loads more than 50% higher. This phenomenon is common in many aspects of engineering/bioengineering. The point is that if you trigger your body to make the TA 10% thicker, that won’t be enough to even add measurable volume to your penis, but the loads required to produce a permanent elongation from that point forward will begin to go exponential. Consequently, you will read an endless stream of posts here talking about progressing from a beginner manual routine to increasingly intense stressors, and it should be obvious very quickly that the relationship is not linear. Eventually, everyone says you must take a long decon break. They are acknowledging that your body has defended itself to the point that you will no longer be able to produce any gain unless you can convince your tissues that the stress it was protecting against is no longer present. Unfortunately, collagen turnover is VERY slow compared to other tissues like skin and muscle.

The point of the research here is to determine whether it is possible to produce the ‘gains’ without triggering the body’s defense. I will be so bold as to say that I can virtually guarantee that it is not possible within the traditional realm of PE practice. Have PE practitioners been using heat for many years? Yes, and that heat certainly provides benefit vs normal cold treatments. Bad news… it is pretty much impossible to heat the TA and ligs above 39C with any externally radiated or conducted heat source; rice socks, hot water, heat pads, etc… Our penis is high blood flow, so we will literally blister our skin before we’ll get the internal structures above 39C. The penis skin is so delicate that it will begin to burn and we’ll experience excruciating pain as low as 44C. To avoid that, we’d have to keep the rice sock down to 42C which unfortunately is the optimal target temp for the TA which has a constant flow of <36C blood flowing through it. There is already scientific consensus that the collagen structure won’t change to a moldable state until 40C+. So it was up to experimenters like Kyrpa, Manko, etc to literally stick temp probes into the organ and show how it can be done via internal vibration without burning the surrounding tissues. Physiologically, there is reason to believe that stretching the TA with modest loads while heated to around 41C will at least prolong and enhance the growth period. I have always advocated for lower frequency and longer breaks between growth phases than what Kyrpa was using, because my supposition was that it will prove more effective over the long term for someone who wants to achieve very significant growth. I was hopeful that Kyrpa would show that even with his intensity the continued growth would be possible with just short rests between phases. Alas, that doesn’t appear to be the case, although his results are still very impressive so far. Others need to recognize that he has produced big growth at much lower loads and far fewer treatment hours than at least 95% of everyone on these boards. But if I am to push for lower volume and lower frequency, I have to demonstrate it.

I still suspect that there should optimally only be two 60-90 minute treatments a week over a roughly 21-24 day period, followed by a 60-90day rest. There are things going on at the cellular level supporting this suspicion. I remain hopeful that I can demonstrate a method that will at a minimum significantly extend the potential growth prior to extended decon, and do so at far fewer treatment hours than is typical in this community.

I believe that your approach, Kyrpa’s Manko’s and others is something that a large group of us have been waiting for a long time. As I have been in PE for over 20 years, in my own limited scientific mind came to similar conclusions in relation to the tissues. As I have stated before, it simply never made sense to me that in order to grow you need to keep increasing the tension to the point that the glans almost tears apart from the penis. In fact, the proof is out there. Only a handful of people have had big gains throughout the years, while the overwhelming vast majority gains very little 1-2 inches in their lifetime. Another large section of the population reports not having any gain.

I remember after a long break in 2018, I came back to PE in search of new answers. I came across US. While reading and researching, and going though some threads on multiple forums, I went to read a thread of one of these big gainers. He had no science in it, not even an established routine, never spent hours a day pulling his noodle, all he advised everybody to do, is do one stretch pulling out as hard as possible for about a minute. He said something like “I do this when I go to the bathroom, or whenever I have a chance, just drop my pants, one strong stretch for about minute and thats it. As many times a day as possible.” That experience made me start using critical thinking. Perhaps this guy was pulling with his hand just hard enough to stimulate this elasticity, while not spending hours in it, he was creating somehow a controlled growth, without toughening his tissues.

And after that was that I started reading all these long threads about US. And it makes complete sense. I mean, the results are there. Is not a theory, is proven science. I believe that even at this point anybody who has enough IQ to replicate an exercise will benefit from it. I find it to be ridiculous to deny a blatant proof in front of us. I mean, I will follow the scientific advises of somebody who is able to build an engine anytime.

Originally Posted by Walter5169
I’m sure many of you know about him. For those who don’t it should be an interesting read.

Walter5169 - Progress after a year or longer off?

“Started: 2/03, Finished: 5/06, Total Gains: 1.375” BPEL 1.5” EG

Not really “big” gains in three tears, but definitely a very interesting approach with the IPR. It seems he was only missing heat in the equation.

1.5 eg is a huge gain. From what I saw he was after girth the few times he did his protocol.

To encourage people to check the link, there are interesting reports on his approach amd his experience with PE : frequency, decon breaks, intensity.

There are also many links to scientific articles and books which could be interesting for a few of you.

Originally Posted by Walter5169
1.5 eg is a huge gain. From what I saw he was after girth the few times he did his protocol.

To encourage people to check the link, there are interesting reports on his approach amd his experience with PE : frequency, decon breaks, intensity.

There are also many links to scientific articles and books which could be interesting for a few of you.

I am not fully aknowledged about him, but I surely know this much: We should study MX and fnd out what went wrong with the IPR.

MX was the insipiration for Xenolith co. . MX was in the same page as us for the growth triggering responses as starting from somepoint on, he was convinced that everything is about the displacement. Strain is the source of the growth.

The IPR methodology confused everyone during the years. Following Xenolith & co. people started to encourage self induced inflammation.

That is a classic case of forcing theories to fit someones agenda. To achieve strain these practitioners were using such as abusive methods inflammation was inevitable. What happened here is the egg -chicken dilemma.

As there were gains people forced the IPR theory to fit in the scenario. The wound and injury induced healing responses.

Somewhere along the line most of the IPR method users have completely ignored the strain being the target like original idea was.

The highest principle has been forgotten while focusing on stressing the tissue to the point of inflammation responses.

Backing down from that false premise we can get into what really matters, strain, with the right tools there are no signs of the inflammation , there is gains and they are not happening injury/wound healing basis.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
I am sure those practises were already described and in my case already in use.

The US can be used as a catalyst, or a steroid like substance as you have already found out. It is not just a another source of heat. It can be used as a active tool.
Glad you are contributing, there is no progress ever if not the critical debate.

“US Heat” - Are you referring to an ultrasound machine?

Originally Posted by Sketch2000
“US Heat” - Are you referring to an ultrasound machine?

Yes.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

From today’s treatment session…

Pre-warmup BPEL gave back 4mm from last Thurs final BPEL.

Relative to last thurs session, the incremental BPFSL changes are as follows.
Step 1 —- +4mm
Step 2 —- +4mm
Step 3 —- +3mm

The treatment protocol produced a very similar 5-6mm of additional strain with each successive set as was seen in the first session. But this time there was a total of 4mm additional length. I did add a 4th Set this time, but interestingly, there was only a 1mm gain from the 3rd to the 4th set. I feel like that last set was not worth the effort and is contradictory to what I’m trying to accomplish. Going forward I will likely stick to the original 3 Set treatment protocol. It also became very apparent that the weak link in all of this is the heating method. My strain device is very consistent and precise, but it would still be nice to figure out a better way to apply a precise amount of consistent internal heat. The US Pro 2000 is a decent device, but from my perspective, the highest setting is too powerful and the middle setting not powerful enough. I’m forced to use the high setting and just move the wand quite rapidly to avoid burn. Highly likely that I will be spending some additional time figuring out RF heat.

As a side note, the measurements that I get while mounted in the device are much more consistent than manual measurements with a ruler. Essentially, the device sits evenly across the pubic bone, so there isn’t much variability and the amount of load used for measurement is precisely quantified. Obviously, I cannot use this for BPEL, but it works well for BPFSL. Today despite the BPFSL being 4mm longer than previous session, the resulting BPEL was only 1mm longer. Albeit, that was the longest BPEL I have ever measured.

Originally Posted by Tutt
From today’s treatment session…

Pre-warmup BPEL gave back 4mm from last Thurs final BPEL.

Relative to last thurs session, the incremental BPFSL changes are as follows.
Step 1 —- +4mm
Step 2 —- +4mm
Step 3 —- +3mm

The treatment protocol produced a very similar 5-6mm of additional strain with each successive set as was seen in the first session. But this time there was a total of 4mm additional length. I did add a 4th Set this time, but interestingly, there was only a 1mm gain from the 3rd to the 4th set. I feel like that last set was not worth the effort and is contradictory to what I’m trying to accomplish. Going forward I will likely stick to the original 3 Set treatment protocol. It also became very apparent that the weak link in all of this is the heating method. My strain device is very consistent and precise, but it would still be nice to figure out a better way to apply a precise amount of consistent internal heat. The US Pro 2000 is a decent device, but from my perspective, the highest setting is too powerful and the middle setting not powerful enough. I’m forced to use the high setting and just move the wand quite rapidly to avoid burn. Highly likely that I will be spending some additional time figuring out RF heat.

As a side note, the measurements that I get while mounted in the device are much more consistent than manual measurements with a ruler. Essentially, the device sits evenly across the pubic bone, so there isn’t much variability and the amount of load used for measurement is precisely quantified. Obviously, I cannot use this for BPEL, but it works well for BPFSL. Today despite the BPFSL being 4mm longer than previous session, the resulting BPEL was only 1mm longer. Albeit, that was the longest BPEL I have ever measured.


Try ultrasound gelpad. It should smoothen the intensity some degree and the depth adjusts also at more convinient depth, especially at distal portion.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

What is the thickness of the gel pad for the best result? I think it should not be too thick nor skinny

Originally Posted by Alhowaidi
What is the thickness of the gel pad for the best result? I think it should not be too thick nor skinny

I have tried 1cm and 2cm thickness. Unfortunately not with thermometer yet.
The impression at least with the 1 cm pad was positive.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

I have always been using a 2cm gelpad.

Originally Posted by Walter5169
1.5 eg is a huge gain. From what I saw he was after girth the few times he did his protocol.

To encourage people to check the link, there are interesting reports on his approach amd his experience with PE : frequency, decon breaks, intensity.

There are also many links to scientific articles and books which could be interesting for a few of you.

Well, I gained a full inch of EG in just one year. However, length is the limiting factor, not girth.

Originally Posted by Tutt

The treatment protocol produced a very similar 5-6mm of additional strain with each successive set as was seen in the first session. But this time there was a total of 4mm additional length. I did add a 4th Set this time, but interestingly, there was only a 1mm gain from the 3rd to the 4th set. I feel like that last set was not worth the effort and is contradictory to what I’m trying to accomplish. Going forward I will likely stick to the original 3 Set treatment protocol.

At the fourth attempt you did reach the stage elasticity governing the process. At that stage you have utilized the stress relaxation and passed the transitional range and you are in the beginning of the elastic range of the stress strain curve.

From here on the tissue should start to behave more proportionally.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

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