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The Chemical PE Thread

Originally Posted by sentii
I wouldn’t screw around with DHT it will suppress your HPTA and give you limp dick among many other problems.

Not if used correctly and not if used on a trt cycle

Originally Posted by DomXZ
What do you base this on?

Summary of what I’ve read. I can’t remember if BPC-157 or TB 500 mixed with trimix and injected into one side of the corpus cavernosa would supposedly lead to blood vessel proliferation. I think it was BPC in the original thread and this is readily available through peptide suppliers.

The gainers also used some type of growth hormone, maybe mk-677 can replace this to some degree as growth hormone is by far the most expensive route. Also included with the trimix is not growth hormone itself but IGF-DES.

So basically oral PABA, mk-677/growth hormone, topical DHT cream, and trimix, BPC-157, and IGF-DES all three combined and injected into either side of the C.C. Along with some mild pain reliever that isn’t an NSAID (inhibits prostaglandins). Someone with the means should get on this protocol and report back, I suspect the results will be far superior than going through the exercises without chemical enhancement. Will have to reference the stagestop thread on pro muscle to be sure of the proper dosages of BPC and IGF-DES. trimix dosage depends on the individual and experience with the medication as too much can be painful.

Originally Posted by dudemandudeman
Summary of what I’ve read. I can’t remember if BPC-157 or TB 500 mixed with trimix and injected into one side of the corpus cavernosa would supposedly lead to blood vessel proliferation. I think it was BPC in the original thread and this is readily available through peptide suppliers.

The gainers also used some type of growth hormone, maybe mk-677 can replace this to some degree as growth hormone is by far the most expensive route. Also included with the trimix is not growth hormone itself but IGF-DES.

So basically oral PABA, mk-677/growth hormone, topical DHT cream, and trimix, BPC-157, and IGF-DES all three combined and injected into either side of the C.C. Along with some mild pain reliever that isn’t an NSAID (inhibits prostaglandins). Someone with the means should get on this protocol and report back, I suspect the results will be far superior than going through the exercises without chemical enhancement. Will have to reference the stagestop thread on pro muscle to be sure of the proper dosages of BPC and IGF-DES. trimix dosage depends on the individual and experience with the medication as too much can be painful.

All sounds good in theory, but chemical PE results seem to be hit or mix in practice.

I’m using BPC-157, TB-500, ipamorelin/mod-grf (switched from MK-677), proviron (orally bioavailable androgen similar to DHT), topical 11-keto DHT, and a number of other supplements as outlined here. My results been average. Many have gained more in their first year without supplements.

Granted, I have not done any injections into the CC. Everything I use is oral, injected IM with the intention of going systemic, or injected into the fat pad.

You mention “the gainers” in your post, but you did not include any references. Can you elaborate? I have read hundreds of pages of anecdotal reports about chemical PE as well as countless studies. As far as I am concerned, results are inconsistent at best - even with chemical PE “staples” like PGE-1.

Here’s something I recently posted on the topic: lifestyle - The Chemical PE Thread


Start 11/30/17: 6” BPEL, 4.25" MSEG - My Progress Report

Latest 1/29/20: 7" BPEL, 4.75" MSEG - My Progress Photos

“I have a vision. I have disposable income and time. I will reach my goals. It is inevitable. I will not stop otherwise.” - TG

Originally Posted by discountcolumbi
Is taking PABA oral still recommended in folks’ routines? From everything I’ve seen here, it seems like the ideal moderate routine would be PGE1 before bed every 3 days, with PABA oral and manual stretches daily.

Maybe daily Viagra, just because I’ve heard that daily use can increase EQ.

That sounds like a reasonable protocol, assuming you have already gained substantially through manual PE.

There is no consensus on chemical PE. Every now and then there is a large “wave” of chemical PE. I suppose it’s easier to inject into your dick when there’s a big group of people all doing the same thing. During each wave, there are a few big gainers, a few with mediocre gains, a few that don’t gain, and plenty of stories about painful botched injections, poor erection quality without PGE-1, and other issues. Read the stagestop and OMG! threads and you’ll see what I mean.

In my opinion, supplements should be used to do just that - supplement a solid manual routine. Full blown chemical PE (as in injecting directly into the CC) should be viewed as a last resort, or at a minimum, an undertaking to be pursued by those with a substantial amount of PE experience who fully understand and accept the risks involved.


Start 11/30/17: 6” BPEL, 4.25" MSEG - My Progress Report

Latest 1/29/20: 7" BPEL, 4.75" MSEG - My Progress Photos

“I have a vision. I have disposable income and time. I will reach my goals. It is inevitable. I will not stop otherwise.” - TG

I’ve ordered PGE1, we’ll see whether it clears customs. Otherwise I still need to find European supplier.

I’d skip the papaverine and see whether Verapamil creme/injection is an option. Papaverine has been linked with build-up of scar tissue. In the same vein (heh, pun) if and when it does get through i’ll limit the PGE1 to 3 sessions per week. I’d rather keep gaining slow and steady.

As far as peptides are concerned; TB500, BPC 157 and GHK-Cu improved collagen synthesis. PGE1 is meant to delink, so I can’t help but think it’s somewhat counterproductive. At least, while you’re still trying to gain. Perhaps after sufficient gains have been made they’re useful for flaccid growth. But that’s just throwing around ideas.

Proviron is interesting, the benefits to libido may be worth considering using it. I’ve had my eyes on it for a while, if not for the other benefits.

Edit;

And if I recall correctly; the original protocol called for a potentiator. If Proviron isn’t sufficient or useful then testosterone suspension would be an option. No idea how much one for need for injection into the CC, let alone the results.

Originally Posted by DomXZ
I’ve ordered PGE1, we’ll see whether it clears customs. Otherwise I still need to find European supplier.

I’d skip the papaverine and see whether Verapamil creme/injection is an option. Papaverine has been linked with build-up of scar tissue. In the same vein (heh, pun) if and when it does get through i’ll limit the PGE1 to 3 sessions per week. I’d rather keep gaining slow and steady.

As far as peptides are concerned; TB500, BPC 157 and GHK-Cu improved collagen synthesis. PGE1 is meant to delink, so I can’t help but think it’s somewhat counterproductive. At least, while you’re still trying to gain. Perhaps after sufficient gains have been made they’re useful for flaccid growth. But that’s just throwing around ideas.

Proviron is interesting, the benefits to libido may be worth considering using it. I’ve had my eyes on it for a while, if not for the other benefits.

Edit;

And if I recall correctly; the original protocol called for a potentiator. If Proviron isn’t sufficient or useful then testosterone suspension would be an option. No idea how much one for need for injection into the CC, let alone the results.

Testosterone is an oil, unless I’m mistaken. It’s definitely for intramuscular injection. If I really wanted to use a potentiator then I personally would just go for once a week injections of Sustanon in glute. I tried it once and it was easy. Much easier than sticking needle into your dick.

But generally I think screwing around with hormones is invitation for trouble.

Originally Posted by DomXZ
As far as peptides are concerned; TB500, BPC 157 and GHK-Cu improved collagen synthesis. PGE1 is meant to delink, so I can’t help but think it’s somewhat counterproductive. At least, while you’re still trying to gain. Perhaps after sufficient gains have been made they’re useful for flaccid growth. But that’s just throwing around ideas.

Proviron is interesting, the benefits to libido may be worth considering using it. I’ve had my eyes on it for a while, if not for the other benefits.

Edit;

And if I recall correctly; the original protocol called for a potentiator. If Proviron isn’t sufficient or useful then testosterone suspension would be an option. No idea how much one for need for injection into the CC, let alone the results.

You bring up a great point about collagen synthesis. This is something I have thought about quite a bit lately. It’s entirely possible that in an attempt to potentiate gains, I’m simply making my dick much stronger and harder to stretch in the process.

However, collagen is a very complex topic. I don’t think collagen synthesis itself is bad. Collagen alignment in the direction in which force is applied, collagen thickening, collagen cross-linking are certainly counterproductive for PE. Scar tissue formation and fibrosis should be avoided at all costs as well. Here’s a great thread on collagen: Collagen Considered

My understanding is that we want to break down collagen in order to stretch the tunica for length and/or girth, then synthesis more collagen to create more tissue and add permanent length and/or girth - but only by lengthening collagen fibers/fibrils, not thickening or increasing cross-linking.

To accomplish this goal, I have used a number of peptides and supplements that may contribute to growth (GHRH/GHRP, MK-677, BPC-157, TB-500, GHK-Cu, etc) as well as a number of supplements to help continue breaking down collagen and preventing cross linking and fibrosis (DMSO, POTABA, ALCAR, L-Carnosine, etc).

All of that said, I’m beginning to think that the risk of using supplements that may dramatically increase collagen synthesis may outweigh the benefits. I’m taking a number of these supplements for overall health benefits, not just PE. However, I may have to reconsider their use and/or timing. For starters, today I dropped my morning dose of GHRH/GHRP. I’m also planning to experiment with PGE-1 in DMSO to see if I can get any of the collagen unlinking benefits.

As for the proviron or other androgens, I don’t think they directly cause growth for PE purposes. However, I believe androgens have a number of other benefits and may help support gains.


Start 11/30/17: 6” BPEL, 4.25" MSEG - My Progress Report

Latest 1/29/20: 7" BPEL, 4.75" MSEG - My Progress Photos

“I have a vision. I have disposable income and time. I will reach my goals. It is inevitable. I will not stop otherwise.” - TG

Originally Posted by lifestyle
There is no consensus on chemical PE. Every now and then there is a large “wave” of chemical PE. I suppose it’s easier to inject into your dick when there’s a big group of people all doing the same thing. During each wave, there are a few big gainers, a few with mediocre gains, a few that don’t gain, and plenty of stories about painful botched injections, poor erection quality without PGE-1, and other issues. Read the stagestop and OMG! threads and you’ll see what I mean.

In my opinion, supplements should be used to do just that - supplement a solid manual routine. Full blown chemical PE (as in injecting directly into the CC) should be viewed as a last resort, or at a minimum, an undertaking to be pursued by those with a substantial amount of PE experience who fully understand and accept the risks involved.

After a lot of thought and research, I have changed my view of PGE-1. I’ve always seen PGE-1 as a last resort. However, I’ve begun to think PGE-1 is better used sooner rather than later, for anyone who plans on going the full blown chemical PE route eventually. I think the effects of PGE-1 on collagen synthesis (as DomXZ mentioned in a previous post) probably work synergistically with any routine, and may help prevent an early plateau.

I have 30mg of PGE-1 in my freezer. I’m taking the plunge.


Start 11/30/17: 6” BPEL, 4.25" MSEG - My Progress Report

Latest 1/29/20: 7" BPEL, 4.75" MSEG - My Progress Photos

“I have a vision. I have disposable income and time. I will reach my goals. It is inevitable. I will not stop otherwise.” - TG

And, I took the plunge: First PGE-1 Injection


Start 11/30/17: 6” BPEL, 4.25" MSEG - My Progress Report

Latest 1/29/20: 7" BPEL, 4.75" MSEG - My Progress Photos

“I have a vision. I have disposable income and time. I will reach my goals. It is inevitable. I will not stop otherwise.” - TG

This is currently my approach; PGE1, PABA, DMSO and manual stretching. Stretch regularly, max of 3 PGE1 doses per week and apply PABA/DMSP mixture on a regular basis.

Originally Posted by sentii
Testosterone is an oil, unless I’m mistaken. It’s definitely for intramuscular injection. If I really wanted to use a potentiator then I personally would just go for once a week injections of Sustanon in glute. I tried it once and it was easy. Much easier than sticking needle into your dick.

But generally I think screwing around with hormones is invitation for trouble.

Oils are used for testosterone esters that are meant to be slowly released. Testosterone suspension is unmodified testosterone suspended in bacteriostatic water. It would be injected directly into the dick. However, I believe DHT would be a better choice for this purpose.


Start 11/30/17: 6” BPEL, 4.25" MSEG - My Progress Report

Latest 1/29/20: 7" BPEL, 4.75" MSEG - My Progress Photos

“I have a vision. I have disposable income and time. I will reach my goals. It is inevitable. I will not stop otherwise.” - TG

Originally Posted by DomXZ
This is currently my approach; PGE1, PABA, DMSO and manual stretching. Stretch regularly, max of 3 PGE1 doses per week and apply PABA/DMSP mixture on a regular basis.

How much stretching and what duration PGE-1 erection?

What is your PE history? Have you already hit a plateau?


Start 11/30/17: 6” BPEL, 4.25" MSEG - My Progress Report

Latest 1/29/20: 7" BPEL, 4.75" MSEG - My Progress Photos

“I have a vision. I have disposable income and time. I will reach my goals. It is inevitable. I will not stop otherwise.” - TG

Originally Posted by lifestyle
How much stretching and what duration PGE-1 erection?

What is your PE history? Have you already hit a plateau?

I aim for 3 hour erections, with level of erection being less relevant. Based largely on Dr Adams protocol and some anecdotal evidence from the Franktalk forums. That and I’d rather not ramp up my PGE1 usage up faster than I need to. I extend 2 times 10 minutes per day, with a hand full of 2 minute pulls throughout the day. DMSO applied when convenient. PABA’s also in my PGE1 mixture.

Been PEing since 2012. Broken through plateaus several times, mainly for length. Girth has been impossible to attain beyond the initial gains. I’ve done the newbie routine, hung, clamped, used an extender, pumped (Low, high, long and short vacuum, including near vacuum) and did memento’s rapid gain routine. Extending gave me most of my gains but even that has stopped.

Originally Posted by DomXZ
I aim for 3 hour erections, with level of erection being less relevant. Based largely on Dr Adams protocol and some anecdotal evidence from the Franktalk forums. That and I’d rather not ramp up my PGE1 usage up faster than I need to. I extend 2 times 10 minutes per day, with a hand full of 2 minute pulls throughout the day. DMSO applied when convenient. PABA’s also in my PGE1 mixture.

Been PEing since 2012. Broken through plateaus several times, mainly for length. Girth has been impossible to attain beyond the initial gains. I’ve done the newbie routine, hung, clamped, used an extender, pumped (Low, high, long and short vacuum, including near vacuum) and did memento’s rapid gain routine. Extending gave me most of my gains but even that has stopped.

My understanding is strict adherence to the Dr. Adams protocol is best for those with no prior PE experience. I believe Dr. Adams said those who had PE’d prior generally did not do well on his program. Would you mind providing a link to any relevant threads with anecdotal evidence on the Franktalk forums? I’m not familiar.

I know Dr. Adams’ most recent recommendations included shorter erections less frequently. Do you know the logic behind that? I believe Ronielle speculated this was for financial reasons (longer repeat customers) rather than actually accelerating gains. I’m open to the idea of shorter erections less frequently. I would like to understand the theory behind it and see data to back it up. I’m currently shooting for 15 hours per week of PGE-1 erections and 20 hours of hanging.

Approximately how many times per day do you apply DMSO/PABA? What is the DMSO concentration? Do you apply heat during your routine? If so, how much and how consistently?

Did your PGE-1 make it through customs?


Start 11/30/17: 6” BPEL, 4.25" MSEG - My Progress Report

Latest 1/29/20: 7" BPEL, 4.75" MSEG - My Progress Photos

“I have a vision. I have disposable income and time. I will reach my goals. It is inevitable. I will not stop otherwise.” - TG

Franktalk thread (There may be more out there)

I don’t know the theory behind the change in frequency and length of erection. Perhaps to reduce instances of scar tissue forming, saturation of receptors. Perhaps the plateau people run into is endocrine related by adding hormones, hard to tell. Couldn’t find any interesting as far as research is concerned, despite access to paywall’d stuff.

My take on things is, that if usage of PGE1 for ED can increase size, then that’s good enough for me. I’d rather not shoot myself in the foot in an attempt to gain as much as quick as possible and be left with another plateau.

DMSO is applied 3 times a day at 70/30 (BA water). I ought to use heat more, I’ve got an IR lamp.

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