Is LESS more, or is MORE more?

I think that determines how much force is needed. I suspect that the sensitivity of smooth muscle is one of the keys in what category you fall into.

The other thing is the force level that red spots begin to appear. For some guys they start to get them with moderate to low stress. Pumping is a great way to evaluate it, because the gauge will show exactly the force used. Some guys start getting red spots (capillaries bursting) at 4 in hg, others can go up to 10 in hg and not get them.

So, there are a lot of observable factors that differ between guys, and it translates into for some more is more and others, less is more.

Sparkyx,

I believe in the less is more theory. I am still using the newbie routine and doing only manual stretches for 6 minutes after warmup 3 days per week, and have gained from 6.75” EL to 8.50” in my first 12 months. When I do more my EQ goes down and I can’t stretch as far, and my gains come to a halt and have to take a decon break.

Its not a belief, for some guys any more than a little drops there EQ and is counter productive. When they do an extended workout, it wrecks them for a few days to a week.

I’m not promoting the concept that everyone should do tiny 5 minute workouts, its just that for some of us, more than that and we go backward…its just observing your physiology.

I think more is more as long as the exercises are done in a light, correct, and non-injuring manner.

More is more for a percentage of guys. More is not more for me, and I have tried for over 4 years to make it work, and it just doesn’t. Even just very low stress edging, when done for hours ruins my EQ. I have done 1-2 hours at 1.5 in hg in pumping and its ruins my EQ. There are scores of guys that have found the same thing.

More is more for some, not everyone. The problem comes in when someone finds what works for them then assumes it will work for everyone. If that was the case, after the first guy figured it out, we’d all have big dicks just following what he did…it doesn’t work.

I think we’d all get to our goals a lot faster if we just try both approaches and see which one we respond best to, then do it. Its when you won’t believe what your EQ and growth is telling you that you waste a lot of time.

Well jeez! Maybe 5-10 minutes is all I need. It seems like the first few minutes go great and then I plateau while trying to get that “pump” again. I probably end up overtraining since my EQ isn’t top notch.

Great thread, Sparky :)

KP, how about masturbation with no ejaculation for some time? I don’t think lesser masturbation relates to lower testosterone. P.E needs a healing period which means more energy and lesser ejaculation.

I consider myself to be fair minded and pragmatic. But I still have to fight the urge to think that what I do should work for almost everyone:-)

It all comes down to a starting point. Where should a new guy start? The Newbie Routine exactly like it is written? I think the Newbie Routine is an excellent starting point as long as the reader sees the part that says it is a guideline.

Should we start here?
NEW newbie + advanced routine

Perhaps this thread is something that should be promoted to an “article”?

Great topic and thread.

We all KNOW our physiological limitations, the problem comes in when we fail to ACCEPT them. Even though we might want to be the next Bruce Jenner, Mark Spitz, John Homes, etc., each of us has physiological limitations that are individual, and in my opinion genetic. While we can push the bounds of these limitations, trying to push them beyond a certain point will always result in negative results.

Thinking that you can follow the same “regiment” as anybody else and achieve the exact same results is a fallacy. One I have myself fallen into, on occasion.

Gather knowledge, understand the basics, know yourself and your body. YOUR gains will follow. I guarantee.

That’s why I wrote this, guys keep trying to fit EVERYONE in one camp…and its just not accurate. Some guys get no gains until they start to push their time up past 30 minutes to an hour a day. Many guys get no gains until they drop below 7 minutes.

Sure force is a factor, but after years of looking into this, it is very apparent that there is a very wide range of time and force that guys respond to. That’s why I wrote the Physiology based approaches, so you can see what works for you…then DO IT! The real problem comes in when you just can’t believe what your dick is telling you.

Yes, I do think a more comprehensive approach for Newbies is to start ridiculously low and slowly ramp up while watching your PI’s and EQ. Its smarter, and safer! HOWEVER, if you use the standard Newbie workout, AND watch your EQ, it will become apparent when you are over doing it.

The only real problem comes in ( and it happens a lot) when your starting point is ALREADY too much, and you keep waiting to see improved EQ and it never shows up…because you are already WAY PAST OVER TRAINING…FROM DAY ONE!!!

No, many guys have no idea what signs of physiologic limits are. For years, I followed the body building routines of the “Stars” and wondered why I wasn’t getting big and strong like “Ahnold”! The sorer and weaker I got, the harder I pushed until injuries would force me to quit. I would take a month off, come back much strong (from the recovery time) get excited and proceed to do it all over again!

For years, guys would read the PE gainers routine and reproduce it, some would gain but many would crash and burn. That’s why I wrote the PI’s and EQ threads…so the clueless guy wouldn’t have to learn the hard way.

Yes, for most guys, unless they learn to “read” their bodies, they don’t have a chance in hell to be successful here…agreed!

The answer is to find what works for you - Everyone is different so what works for some won’t work for others. Try different things until you get your routine right to the point where you are constantly gaining

Trying “different things” is really like wild guesses. Try ONE thing and experiment with different amounts of it, start with modest force and vary the time. Watch your PIs, to make sure you stay out of the negatives, then when your EQ is starting to improve, work at making it great. When EQ is great, you are very close to the growth zone. At that point, small changes are used until you see growth starting.

If you are constantly just “changing” when it isn’t working, you have way too many variables in play, and it will be mostly luck if you find the right combination.

I think jelquing is probably the very best single PE method you can use. Start with that and use modest force. Start with just a few minutes and slowly work up from there. When you begin to see your EQ improve, then you know you are heading in the right direction.

Once you are getting gains, you THEN can try other methods ( when gains quit!) and you will have accumulated enough knowlege from jelquing that you should be able to start in the ballpark with a new method. You will have seen what your dick looks and feels like when it is growing, and you can apply that understanding to the new method…and it will greatly enchance your chances of using it productively.

There are tons of us with boxes full of different devices, and still no gains until we go back to basics, like jelquing and use the above method.

Exactly. That’s the knowledge gathering that each and every PEer will need to do. The danger comes in when guys come on here looking for the “quick, easy, miracle cure”, that they end up hurting themselves. Especially if they follow a routine being done by a seasoned vet.

Everybody talks about jelqing here, and pretty much everybody does it, but I would be willing to bet that most don’t even do that basic exercise correctly. I know I spent months doing it wrong and I’ve always considered myself very serious and dedicated.

“Mem’s Momentous Rapid Gain Mechanism” was the post that turned me down the path to actually getting PE gains. Before that I was just “playing” and didn’t even realize that I was. Now I’m at the point where I work up a sweat while jelqing, due to the absolute focus and concentration that I have.

Before you start PE, or even if you’re a veteran you should always ask yourself the question “How serious am I”. I took 8 months off because I no longer liked the answer.

Sorry to hijack this thread but what do you do for weight training now? Maybe the key to gains is the same as weight training? There is smooth muscle in the penis so I don’t see why they couldn’t both work the same way.

I’m actually doing a 4 on/1 off routine where I do a total of 4 sets per bodypart. 2 exercises, 1 heavy set (6-10) and then 1 drop set or set of 20-30 reps. I will do 4-6 warm up sets for each bodypart where I don’t even come close to failure.

If done with enough intensity, I feel like my muscles are going to explode yet I don’t feel like I’m burned out like I would be if I did 10+ sets. I believe doing higher intensity and less sets lets the CNS recover quicker and stimulates the muscles just enough without annihilating the muscles with set after set.