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Digitally controlled constant strain extender

I’ll be interested to see how the end result turns out. How much travel have you designed into it? Do you have access both ventrally and dorsally to the entire shaft from the base to the sulcus?

Originally Posted by Tutt
I’ll be interested to see how the end result turns out. How much travel have you designed into it? Do you have access both ventrally and dorsally to the entire shaft from the base to the sulcus?

I’m using a 200mm (7.8”) lead screw, but some of that will be ‘lost’ to the part of the lead screw that protrudes from the you channel where the gear attaches, plus the pillow blocks and collars that keep the lead screw in place. I’ll try to work out the exact travel after. Worst case scenario, I can swap for a 250mm lead screw but I think the current setup will suffice to give 5-6” of travel which will be more than enough for most people’s PE journey. I mainly prefer this vs the micrometer stage setup because I could not find a micrometer with a few inches of travel. I think yours is 27mm? This setup should allow controlled extension over the entire range of the extender needed without separate mechanisms (e.g. Turnbuckle and micrometer). Just another way to accomplish the same thing really.

I will have access ventrally and dorsally. I’ll try to model this in the software as well so others can see how it works with the extender.

Good work. You’ll find that provides in excess of what you’ll ever need for travel. I admit that I wish the micrometer had about 2x what it has. I found a simple way around it because the first 1-1.5” of strain is within the toe of the curve, so strain rate and precision is less important. If I built a commercial version, it would have about 2” of travel which I believe is the optimal balance between reducing device size and weight with sufficient capacity. The most critical portion is the last 1”. If someone needs more than 2”, they can just start further up the toe region.

Originally Posted by Tutt
If you really want to know, I’ll give you the nutshell version and you can read the related threads for links to the literature supporting the conclusions.

The punch line is that it is physically impossible to manually strain the penis in a fashion that is controlled enough to avoid the adverse physiological response.

When you strain live collagenous tissue (which is the limiter in penis size) beyond the normal physiological range (e.g. BPEL) on a repeat basis, within 7 days the body begins an adaptation process. The collagen fibers begin aligning in the direction of the force, the elastic modulus increases making the penis less elastic, and the tissue becomes more dense making future strains exponentially more difficult. Within 21 days, the adaptation is well progressed and the only way to continue achieving greater strains is to exponentially increase load, which is why TP is filled with stories of veterans hanging with absurd loads. They have accurately demonstrated to themselves and others exactly how the body responds to repeated hyperextension.

Conversely, if you perform the strain protocol with three critical conditions, the tissue can experience significant strains and substantial permanent deformation without inducing this limiting response. Or at least significantly delaying and minimizing it. First the tissue must be heated above 41C and if possible closer to 42-43C any time it experiences a strain outside of the normal physiolocal erection. Second, the load applied in a single instance should not exceed a threshold which is approximately 3.5Kg for most men. Third, the rate of strain should be very slow, ideally around 0.5 to 1.0% per minute which typically means an ideal rate of less than 1mm per minute.

The only methods for reaching target temperature currently are ultrasound and radio frequency. All other methods burn the skin before reaching critical temp. RF is very expensive and inaccessible, so ultrasound is preferred. But it requires a fair amount of concentration and dexterity which is further complicated when trying to strain manually. Then even if using an accurate and precise force transducer it is impossible to maintain consistent load over time manually. If I used my calibrated tensiometer that will measure load in the smallest increments imaginable, what good is that if I can’t maintain the load over time. A cheap $10 digital fish scale is plenty accurate enough to tell someone that they’ve achieve a constant load of about 3Kg. Finally, I can’t imagine anyone being able to demonstrate that they can strain their penis manually at a rate less than 1mm per minute. Especially since the application of strain progressing at 1mm per minute takes about 30 minutes. If done truly manually, the arm cannot endure. Some here use weights or springs which is a decent compromise, but I already discovered that a creep protocol (weights and springs) is somewhat inferior to a stress relaxation protocol and much more complicated in measuring and controlling strain rate.

So why not build a fully digitally controlled programmable device that is much more elegant? Simple, I just built an adequate prototype using mostly what I had sitting around the lab, in a way that requires the least amount of time to prove the concept. It’s a minimum viable product in that sense. Or maybe just a proof of concept. If I worked in a robotics lab, maybe I’d have force transducers and arduinos laying around. But besides creating something more elegant, it would be difficult to argue that it was faster and simpler than my analog prototype using things I already had.

In the end, do people here want some manual techniques that are fairly sufficient for loosening bound up range of motion in the pelvic floor and giving a fairly rapid 15-20mm of apparent gains and then only modest unpredictable results for some people sometimes after that. Or do they want something that is scientifically supported as the optimal method for straining live tissue into permanent defomation in a manner that allows for substantially greater cumulative increase and will work for all people every time?

So clarifying question.

In your application you extend until you reach 3kgs? You then ensure that you are only extending past that initial thresh-hold at 1mm(give or take depending on the starting strain) per minute for the duration of the exercise? Am i understanding that correctly? The argument being that manual exercises can only focus on increasing or decreasing the total load, as where your application is to increase the total distance over a set amount of time?

If im understanding that correctly then I can begin to understand perhaps the why of a electronic device, but I have some follow up questions regarding the how.

In your specific use case Tutt, how do you move the extender forward? Is it on a toggle switch, on and motor runs, or do you need to hold a button to keep power to the motor? Basically is it a button switch, slide, joystick, toggle, or none of the above? How have you determined the total travel per minute of the motor? How many steps per revolution does your motor output? Did you do any sort of calculation against how far a single revolution will extend the device? Did you have to add any controller to power the motor to adjust the steps or input current to the motor, or were you able to use the driver that came with the motor? So you can quickly extend to 3kgs and then shift into a much slower speed that fits within the ideal range of 1mm per minute?


"Pain is temporary, pride is forever."

Originally Posted by oMooseknuckle
So clarifying question.

In your application you extend until you reach 3kgs? You then ensure that you are only extending past that initial thresh-hold at 1mm(give or take depending on the starting strain) per minute for the duration of the exercise? Am i understanding that correctly? The argument being that manual exercises can only focus on increasing or decreasing the total load, as where your application is to increase the total distance over a set amount of time?

If im understanding that correctly then I can begin to understand perhaps the why of a electronic device, but I have some follow up questions regarding the how.

In your specific use case Tutt, how do you move the extender forward? Is it on a toggle switch, on and motor runs, or do you need to hold a button to keep power to the motor? Basically is it a button switch, slide, joystick, toggle, or none of the above? How have you determined the total travel per minute of the motor? How many steps per revolution does your motor output? Did you do any sort of calculation against how far a single revolution will extend the device? Did you have to add any controller to power the motor to adjust the steps or input current to the motor, or were you able to use the driver that came with the motor? So you can quickly extend to 3kgs and then shift into a much slower speed that fits within the ideal range of 1mm per minute?

To clarify, 3kg is the upper limit where I stop. Some with greater girth might go to 3.5kg. In my protocol, I start about 50mm below the previous max strain. Beginning at 2mm/minute I work through the first 20mm over a period of 10 minutes. This is within the toe region of the load-strain curve, so it is ok to strain a bit faster. At this point there is no shifting of fibril bonds or anything like that. Why so slow? Well, I need to give the tissue time to come up to temp and it’s best to slowly creep up on the transition region of the curve to avoid accidentally stiffening the tissue with a strain rate that is too high. Depending on the time available, once I’ve reached 1-1.5kgs of load, I slow the strain rate to 1mm/minute for the remainder. Maintaining that strain rate until 3kg load. At that point I stop, allow stress relaxation to reduce the load to 2.5kg and then remove the heat source. As the tissue cools, the load increases back to 3kg due to fibrils shortening as they cool.

The motor has an on/off/reverse paddle switch as well as a variable speed dial regulating the voltage which is consistent so long as the battery is charged. The strain rate is so slow that there is not much risk of dramatically overshooting max load. The micrometer (which is essentially a precision lead screw) has a 0.025” pitch. So the first part of the protocol I set the motor to just under 4rpm and the latter part just under 2rpm. I use a simple DC motor so that I didnt need to bother with a stepper motor. The only reason I have a voltage regulator is to simply adjust the speed. The precision screw allows me to avoid using gears to dial down the speed, and I had it sitting around.

You’ll find out that with this strain rate and proper heat you’ll achieve maximum strain. What I mean is that going slower won’t achieve appreciable strain increases, and neither will higher loads. Even at slow rates, additional strain will ramp the load exponentially. So for example, if you reached 3kg load and then waited for stress relaxation to drop back to 2.5kg over a couple minutes, even 0.25-0.5mm additional strain will take you back over 3kg. We are trying to avoid an adverse physiological response, so there is no point in trying to push beyond this as it would make future deformation exponentially more difficult. You reach the max load very slowly under heat, lock the strain, remove the heat, then remove the strain once cooled.

The demonstrate… take a chunk of kids silly putty while it’s cold and try to pull it apart rapidly. Notice the force required and how it simply snaps apart with relatively little deformation. Now do it again, but this time heat the putty and pull it apart very slowly. There is seemingly no limit to how far you can stretch it. The viscoelastic properties of the TA are incredibly similar to that material. We just needed to discover the optimal temperature and strain rate, which we have. The primary difference being that the TA is living tissue which has a physiological response to repeated stress. That is, it toughens itself against future strain. Heat, slow strain rate, low loads, and short treatment intervals mitigate that response. It is simply not possible to accomplish these critical requirements manually.

At this point the mechanism for deforming the tissues within the penis are not a mystery. The properties of the tissue are well demonstrated. We’ve explained them at length in other threads, but many on this forum just want it to be as simple as tugging on their penis in the shower so they aren’t willing to follow what science has thoroughly demonstrated. For example, scientific studies have demonstrated a very low amount of strain before rupture at rapid strain rates, but when slowed to 1%/minute they were even able to reach 20% strains within a single application. This is not possible in vivo because your nerves would be screaming at you, but the point remains.

There are still questions around what the optimal treatment frequency might be, or optimal rest intervals, or even whether it’s best to stop before 3kg. These things will be discovered in time, but the critical variables that make this process reliable and repeatable are now known.


Last edited by Tutt : 03-15-2022 at .

Originally Posted by Tutt
The motor has an on/off/reverse paddle switch as well as a variable speed dial regulating the voltage which is consistent so long as the battery is charged. The strain rate is so slow that there is not much risk of dramatically overshooting max load. The micrometer (which is essentially a precision lead screw) has a 0.025” pitch. So the first part of the protocol I set the motor to just under 4rpm and the latter part just under 2rpm. I use a simple DC motor so that I didnt need to bother with a stepper motor. The only reason I have a voltage regulator is to simply adjust the speed. The precision screw allows me to avoid using gears to dial down the speed, and I had it sitting around.

Im not to concerned with the applied logistics or patterns behind the routine itself, just wanted to clarify the basics of your routine in conjunction with the use of the automated device, as to avoid any over assumptions. I also incorrectly assumed some of the part-list from this thread were supplied by you thus why I was hung up on the stepper motor leading to some of those questions. As some stepper motors can be fairly un-agreable when it comes to input voltage, meaning to ‘adjust’ speed you typically need to use controllers that allow for half and micro steps to reduce the total rpm, which can be a much more involved process.


"Pain is temporary, pride is forever."

Finished modeling my device in Fusion 360. Currently finalizing my order. I will share the list of SKUs when I’m done but for now, I’ve attached some pics of what the design looks like.

A few notes:
-I’m using the totalman extender which I tried to model roughly to scale (the rods are quite accurate, the pubic base, less so)
-The flat rectangular plate is where the fish scale will go. I have some doubts about whether it will fit through the horizontal space between the V-shaped beams that are holding the extender rods but that should be a relatively easy fix if they don’t
-The rounded L-shaped bracket at the end of the long rectangular plates is for stress-relaxation
-This build will travel most of the extender which is actually really long (the extender is ~340mm/13inches which is overkill for most PE’rs)
-This build will allow ventral and dorsal access to the member during treatment
-The total travel will be ~6inches/150mm
-I’m also including an extra collar on the lead screw that I can position and adjust to constrain the total travel of the system just as a safety in case the motor ever malfunctions. That constraint will ensure I’m always operating within whatever slack is needed and no more.
-I’ll be using a Nema17 which should be able to do 2.5-3kg direct drive. The 7:1 gear reduction should more than guarantee the torque needed for the loads we’re aiming for all whilst attaining a smooth, low RPM to hit 1mm/min and maybe a little less or more as needed. This is certainly my weakest point, so I’ll have to reach out to my mechanical engineer again to finalize the electronic components.

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Last edited by easygainer : 03-16-2022 at .

Looks like it should function pretty well. Have you settled on a US machine yet?

Originally Posted by Tutt
Looks like it should function pretty well. Have you settled on a US machine yet?

Yup. The US Pro 2nd edition might be the best option within my budget.

I’m contemplating whether I should do 1 US Pro plus an FIR lamp, or 2 US Pros, or maybe even 2 US Pros plus an FIR lamp. What do you suggest? I have to review some of the posts on the FIR lamps.

With regard to 2 US heads, I’m a little concerned about whether my starting point is long enough to have the surface area to accommodate them both, and then there are the issues of alignment to avoid interference, etc. Not sure exactly how to align the heads. I’ll have to search the threads as well to see what I can find.

I don’t find the FIR helpful. I have both FIR lamp and wraps. Frankly you don’t need it. Just the US.

This is some pretty high tech stuff. I can’t wait to see a real working version.

@Jguido

Agreed! As soon as they make this machine for sale I’m buying regardless of the cost.

You’ll probably have to build one yourself. My business analysis determined there wasn’t enough money in it to pursue a commercial version at this time. So the only way you’ll get a working device is to build it or have it built for you. The big issue is getting a commercial version through the regulatory bodies.

@TUT

Dang that sucks. However, if you ever decide you want to make money selling them directly to the PE members then I would gladly buy one. You tell me where to send the money and I’ll pay for it upfront if I need to.

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