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Digitally controlled constant strain extender

Digitally controlled constant strain extender

Mod edit: split the device discussion into this stand alone thread from the original thread:
Using the ultrasound for therapeutic heat in PE (p. 84)

@Tutt @Kyrpa

Thank you both for all your hard work and collaboration to reduce PE to it’s scientific fundamentals.

@Tutt

I’d be happy to test the 2 proposed (potentially optimal) protocols you outlined that seeks to (possibly) avoid/minimize plateaus.
I.e. A) 13-21 days treatment > 3 months decon treatment
B) treatment every 4-7 days > possibly no decon

I have a decent grasp of everything I’ve read thus far but I have to go over everything a few more times to reinforce my learnings.

I’m thinking they can be tested in phases, so first b) for as long as results are coming (maybe 7 days first for X period, then 4 days). If strain starts decreasing, then we switch to a) after a decon (if not dial in to a less frequent treatment in b)).

A few advantages on my end:
-I have never done any PE to date, just lurking and reading, so we have a fresh slate (I do masturbate a lot so I’m not sure to what extent that counts as strain but I’d guess it doesn’t - I have been trying to stop so this will help give me reason to not touch)
-I’m a remote freelancer, so I work from home and have lots of free time/privacy, etc
-I should be able to afford the essential tools needed (save for RF heat - we’re looking at US) - not sure of all the costs yet, but I’m willing to spend about ~$750-1k which I’m guessing should be enough to get a device in place.

I would need your help with a few things Tutt, so let me know how interested/able you are to help. I plan to do as much of this on my own as possible but there will be gaps that your input would help close much faster.

For example, as a starting point, I’d need to build a precise device. I’m not sure if the details of your device is something you plan on keeping private for commercial reasons - if not, I’ll need some help to build something similar. I already know that I’ll need a linear micrometer translation stage, turnbuckle, scale, base that anchors off the pubic bone and some controllable, reversible motors. Those are all terms and design ideas I would not have known without your posts. Anyways, I’m not sure 1) whether you’re using the 1 or 2 motors to turn the both the turnbuckle and the micrometer, 2) how the motor interfaces with both these components (are there micrometers with gears for example?), 3) what torque would the motor need to have to be able to turn the turnbuckle and/or micrometer?, 4) How much load the translation stage needs to be able to bear.

If you can just help me out with design questions like the above, a few questions about theory/methods as they arise, I can tailor my protocols to see whether we can move a little further toward optimality building on the foundation that you and Kyrpa has set. I’d be more than happy to execute and collect data to this end. Let me know?

-easygainer


Last edited by 32quarters : 03-06-2022 at .

Originally Posted by Growing4it
Hey guy’s thanks for keeping the thread going. I have not been doing any US therapy work for a couple years. I am planning on starting ultra sound again this spring. In the past I found for myself 1 on 2 off was what worked best for myself. I was 56 at the time and my gains would slow quickly after 20 work days in a 60 day cycle. This go around I may try 1 on 3 off and see if gains continue over a longer period of time.

This aligns with my theory and research. IF… heat, load, and strain rate are precisely controlled to be optimal, I suspect that 1 on 3 off for about 20 days is best. But it will.tale patience.

Originally Posted by easygainer
@Tutt @Kyrpa

Thank you both for all your hard work and collaboration to reduce PE to it’s scientific fundamentals.

@Tutt

I’d be happy to test the 2 proposed (potentially optimal) protocols you outlined that seeks to (possibly) avoid/minimize plateaus.
I.e. A) 13-21 days treatment > 3 months decon treatment
B) treatment every 4-7 days > possibly no decon

I have a decent grasp of everything I’ve read thus far but I have to go over everything a few more times to reinforce my learnings.

I’m thinking they can be tested in phases, so first b) for as long as results are coming (maybe 7 days first for X period, then 4 days). If strain starts decreasing, then we switch to a) after a decon (if not dial in to a less frequent treatment in b)).

A few advantages on my end:
-I have never done any PE to date, just lurking and reading, so we have a fresh slate (I do masturbate a lot so I’m not sure to what extent that counts as strain but I’d guess it doesn’t - I have been trying to stop so this will help give me reason to not touch)
-I’m a remote freelancer, so I work from home and have lots of free time/privacy, etc
-I should be able to afford the essential tools needed (save for RF heat - we’re looking at US) - not sure of all the costs yet, but I’m willing to spend about ~$750-1k which I’m guessing should be enough to get a device in place.

I would need your help with a few things Tutt, so let me know how interested/able you are to help. I plan to do as much of this on my own as possible but there will be gaps that your input would help close much faster.

For example, as a starting point, I’d need to build a precise device. I’m not sure if the details of your device is something you plan on keeping private for commercial reasons - if not, I’ll need some help to build something similar. I already know that I’ll need a linear micrometer translation stage, turnbuckle, scale, base that anchors off the pubic bone and some controllable, reversible motors. Those are all terms and design ideas I would not have known without your posts. Anyways, I’m not sure 1) whether you’re using the 1 or 2 motors to turn the both the turnbuckle and the micrometer, 2) how the motor interfaces with both these components (are there micrometers with gears for example?), 3) what torque would the motor need to have to be able to turn the turnbuckle and/or micrometer?, 4) How much load the translation stage needs to be able to bear.

If you can just help me out with design questions like the above, a few questions about theory/methods as they arise, I can tailor my protocols to see whether we can move a little further toward optimality building on the foundation that you and Kyrpa has set. I’d be more than happy to execute and collect data to this end. Let me know?

-easygainer

There’s no reason to protect the design of my device. If I wanted to commercialize, I would use a 3D printer to create more streamlined parts and I would make it all programmable and automated. But that would result in a cost of tens of thousands and FDA approvals. I don’t have time for that.

To anchor off the public bone…
US Man Penis Extender Enlargement System Enlarger Stretcher Enhancement 963941885306 | eBay

You don’t need the noose or anything, just the pivoting ring and struts.

To precisely adjust the strain…
Newport 436 Precision Linear Translation Stage with SM-50 Micrometer | eBay

You’ll need to fabricate brackets that attach the ends of the struts to the bottom table of translation stage. This anchors the bottom table to the public bone and leaves the top table to move as you turn the micrometer.

To attach the penis to the translation stage…
2 In 1 Pro Extender System Penis Vacuum Cups Phallosan Device Male Stretcher | eBay

There are many different vacuum cups available. I use the Phallosan Forte cup because of the small integrated pump.

To measure the load…
American Weigh Scales Industrial Precision Digital Hanging Scale, Yellow, 11lb (AMW-SR-5) https://www.ama … /dp/B003SWZWNC/

This will fasten securely to the top table with the hook attached to the end of the vacuum cup.

To turn the micrometer…
Greartisan DC 12V 5RPM Gear Motor High Torque Electric Micro Speed Reduction Geared Motor Centric Output Shaft 37mm Diameter Gearbox https://www.ama … /dp/B072N867G3/

The shaft will attach to the end of the micrometer while the body must be prevented from turning while also being allowed to slide with the micrometer.

To power the motor…
Tenergy NiMH Battery Pack 12V 2000mAh High Capacity Rechargeable Battery w/Bare Leads Replacement Battery Pack for DIY, Medical Equipments, LED Light Kit, RC Models, Portable 12V DC Devices and More https://www.ama … /dp/B077Y9HNTF/

To control the speed and direction of motor…
RioRand 6V 12V 24V 28V 3A 80W DC Motor Speed Controller PWM Speed Adjustable Reversible Switch 1203BB DC Motor Driver Reversing https://www.ama … /dp/B071H2YQG5/

In terms of US device, I prefer the Therasound w/ autosound applicator, but I understand it is expensive. The benefit is that it is hands free and has 4 emitters that cycle themselves with both 1mHz and 3mHz. Once in the strain device, just wrap the shaft with a phantom and strap on the autosound and start the treatment cycle.

Btw… use a silicon cap inside the vacuum cup and ensure the penis head fills the entire cup with no air pockets to both ensure precise measurement without slipping as well as avoid blisters.

Originally Posted by Tutt
There’s no reason to protect the design of my device. If I wanted to commercialize, I would use a 3D printer to create more streamlined parts and I would make it all programmable and automated. But that would result in a cost of tens of thousands and FDA approvals. I don’t have time for that.

To anchor off the public bone..
US Man Penis Extender Enlargement System Enlarger Stretcher Enhancement 963941885306 | eBay

You don’t need the noose or anything, just the pivoting ring and struts.

To precisely adjust the strain..
Newport 436 Precision Linear Translation Stage with SM-50 Micrometer | eBay

You’ll need to fabricate brackets that attach the ends of the struts to the bottom table of translation stage. This anchors the bottom table to the public bone and leaves the top table to move as you turn the micrometer.

To attach the penis to the translation stage..
2 In 1 Pro Extender System Penis Vacuum Cups Phallosan Device Male Stretcher | eBay

There are many different vacuum cups available. I use the Phallosan Forte cup because of the small integrated pump.

To measure the load..
American Weigh Scales Industrial Precision Digital Hanging Scale, Yellow, 11lb (AMW-SR-5) https://www.ama … /dp/B003SWZWNC/

This will fasten securely to the top table with the hook attached to the end of the vacuum cup.

To turn the micrometer..
Greartisan DC 12V 5RPM Gear Motor High Torque Electric Micro Speed Reduction Geared Motor Centric Output Shaft 37mm Diameter Gearbox https://www.ama … /dp/B072N867G3/

The shaft will attach to the end of the micrometer while the body must be prevented from turning while also being allowed to slide with the micrometer.

To power the motor..
Tenergy NiMH Battery Pack 12V 2000mAh High Capacity Rechargeable Battery w/Bare Leads Replacement Battery Pack for DIY, Medical Equipments, LED Light Kit, RC Models, Portable 12V DC Devices and More https://www.ama … /dp/B077Y9HNTF/

To control the speed and direction of motor..
RioRand 6V 12V 24V 28V 3A 80W DC Motor Speed Controller PWM Speed Adjustable Reversible Switch 1203BB DC Motor Driver Reversing https://www.ama … /dp/B071H2YQG5/

WOW! Thank you for the value bomb there Tutt! While waiting on your response I reached out to a mechanical engineer on Upwork on the cheap, lol. I drafted up and sent him a prototype after digging around a bit that’s based on a ball screw mechanism which should allow fine-tuned motion across the entire range. (I attempted to attach my drafts). Let’s see what he proposes. I’m looking at a ball screw like this: https://www.ama … /dp/B08QJ28FF6/

Each revolution produces 5mm of movement, but a fine-tuned motor controller/gear reduction, etc will bring that down to the needed strain rates.

My proposed design uses a stepper motor - not sure if a stepper motor is superior to a DC motor or necessary. Just saw that it’s the typical choice in linear motion stage systems. I’ll see what the guy says, and which is cheaper. I don’t really understand electronics/much of the mechanics so now that you’ve provided your components, I can always default to the motor, power and control components you recommended if needed.

My proposed design will also provide a solid surface that can be topped with the US backing so I can press down sufficiently with the US heads. Any reason to not have a metal below the US gel backing? (I’m guessing aluminium)?

At $37.99, the ball screw mechanism is really cheap (compared to the micrometer linear stage you linked). I think at this point, if we provide some clear instructions of how to build a device and how to perform the protocol, we’ll reduce the barriers to trying out your/Kyrpa’s protocols or something that lands within the established best practices. After I settle on a design and build it and confirm that it’s allowing me to control the variables needed per those best practices, I might make some instructional videos to the aforementioned ends, I.e. Device design, and performing the treatments. And hopefully that gets more PE’rs in the door and also usher in the data. Pretty excited!

Oh, I’m also thinking of modifying a digital micrometer ruler to attach to the design so that it can measure in realtime. The plastic pubic base would probably be

Sketch.jpeg
(37.0 KB, 118 views)
Device Model.png
(29.3 KB, 138 views)

Yup. I also think that if someone can an a device approved, they’ll get rich virtually overnight. Even if it’s a more medical grade treatment that a trained clinician has to execute.

Originally Posted by easygainer
WOW! Thank you for the value bomb there Tutt! While waiting on your response I reached out to a mechanical engineer on Upwork on the cheap, lol. I drafted up and sent him a prototype after digging around a bit that’s based on a ball screw mechanism which should allow fine-tuned motion across the entire range. (I attempted to attach my drafts). Let’s see what he proposes. I’m looking at a ball screw like this: https://www.ama … /dp/B08QJ28FF6/

Each revolution produces 5mm of movement, but a fine-tuned motor controller/gear reduction, etc will bring that down to the needed strain rates.

My proposed design uses a stepper motor - not sure if a stepper motor is superior to a DC motor or necessary. Just saw that it’s the typical choice in linear motion stage systems. I’ll see what the guy says, and which is cheaper. I don’t really understand electronics/much of the mechanics so now that you’ve provided your components, I can always default to the motor, power and control components you recommended if needed.

My proposed design will also provide a solid surface that can be topped with the US backing so I can press down sufficiently with the US heads. Any reason to not have a metal below the US gel backing? (I’m guessing aluminium)?

At $37.99, the ball screw mechanism is really cheap (compared to the micrometer linear stage you linked). I think at this point, if we provide some clear instructions of how to build a device and how to perform the protocol, we’ll reduce the barriers to trying out your/Kyrpa’s protocols or something that lands within the established best practices. After I settle on a design and build it and confirm that it’s allowing me to control the variables needed per those best practices, I might make some instructional videos to the aforementioned ends, I.e. Device design, and performing the treatments. And hopefully that gets more PE’rs in the door and also usher in the data. Pretty excited!

Oh, I’m also thinking of modifying a digital micrometer ruler to attach to the design so that it can measure in realtime. The plastic pubic base would probably be

If I was making this commercial I would be using a stepper motor for the ability to program it. I already had the translation stage which is much more precise and eliminates the need for gears. So i worked with what i had. Admittedly, if i drafted something up in solid works it’d be lighter, smaller, and overall much better.

A 5mm pitch ball screw doesn’t have the resolution needed without gearing which adds complexity. Think about it for a second. With a 5mm pitch you’d be ideally making about 1 revolution every 5 minutes. It’s fine to gear it down like that but will require a gear box.

Same with the stepper motor. It gives flexibility but at the expense of needing drivers and controllers versus literally just attaching a battery with an on/off switch. The reason that I used a controller for the DC motor was simply for variable speed control for testing. Stepper motors themselves are cheap, but depending on design the setup can get very complex and bulky compared to a simple DC motor.

You will want to avoid a reflective backing for the US waves. Provide some type of sound absorbing material to prevent the waves bouncing back and creating interference. In the best case they would cancel and reduce efficacy. Worst case you produce standing waves that result in energy hot spots. Ouch!

Originally Posted by easygainer
Yup. I also think that if someone can an a device approved, they’ll get rich virtually overnight. Even if it’s a more medical grade treatment that a trained clinician has to execute.

I performed a business analysis on it. What it came down to was a near certainty that the optimal device would need to be priced too high for individual retail. The process to get through FDA approval for clinical treatment is a nightmare. Imagine twice weekly visits to the clinic at something like $200-300 each. Because it’ll be about 90 minutes per treatment and have to cover office space, technicians, and ROI on a machine that would probably cost something like $20-30k. To get meaningful results, the average person might need to spend $35-40k over the course of a couple years.

I assumed that the target demographic would be willing and able to spend only about $7-15k depending on location. I could never make the numbers work due to the treatment frequency.

Great analysis!

Re: 5mm ball screw

I would have preferred something that did 1mm per revolution as well, but those ball screws are much more expensive (1201s I think they’re called?). I’ll look around and see.

Good point on the stepper motors. The additional components and coding is exactly what intimidates me about it, plus the added bulk on the device would probably be the much bigger concern.

Thanks for the input on the gel pad backing. I’ll do some research to see what other materials I can use. Maybe a type of wood? Recommendations welcomed.

@Tutt

Quick tangential question. I’ve always been interested in learning the splits so I could throw high kicks. The same principles of strain rate, load, etc would probably apply to getting to 180° as effeciently as possible, right? This would go against alot of the accepted methods of using force.

I’m thinking that something like this would be ideal for slow strain rates: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088 … /dp/B088QZ5H24/

Originally Posted by easygainer
Great analysis!

Re: 5mm ball screw

I would have preferred something that did 1mm per revolution as well, but those ball screws are much more expensive (1201s I think they’re called?). I’ll look around and see.

Good point on the stepper motors. The additional components and coding is exactly what intimidates me about it, plus the added bulk on the device would probably be the much bigger concern.

Thanks for the input on the gel pad backing. I’ll do some research to see what other materials I can use. Maybe a type of wood? Recommendations welcomed.

Using a piece of pvc, create a phantom out of dragon skin silicone referred to elsewhere here. Then for me I just strap the autosound head in place with thin neoprene.

Originally Posted by easygainer
@Tutt

Quick tangential question. I’ve always been interested in learning the splits so I could throw high kicks. The same principles of strain rate, load, etc would probably apply to getting to 180° as effeciently as possible, right? This would go against alot of the accepted methods of using force.

I’m thinking that something like this would be ideal for slow strain rates: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088 … /dp/B088QZ5H24/

Well, there are a couple considerations when we consider structural joint mobility. On the one hand, if the only thing you care about is getting to 180, then the missing link in most training regimens is heat and strain rate control. So the exact same principals apply. Heat the tendons and ligaments to 42-43C and strain very slowly, then remove the heat and allow an ambient cool down at peak strain. Rinse and repeat.

But there are words of caution. If you are talking about front splits, I would say knock yourself out, because those are more heavily focused on muscle and tendon flexibility (i.e. hamstrings, glutes, hip flexors, quads, etc). Increased range of motion in that regard is almost entirely beneficial. But it seems like you might be more interested in side splits, which are inherently more joint and bone structure dependent. Some people simply don’t have the pelvic structure to do a full side split. And be cautious that side splits are much more ligament focused. So even though the mechanism for lengthening and loosening them is the same, the result is actual joint mobility to the point of sloppy and slipping joints. Gymnasts and many martial artists overcome these risks by having incredibly well developed musculature that keeps the joints stable. But even then, dislocations are incredibly common in those sports. So be slow, methodical, and cautious.

Also remember, that if you experience negative side effect of ligaments that are too loose, you can use these same principals to reverse it. That is, heat the ligaments to 43C while not under any load, and then let them cool also while not under any load. Then use some type of physical bracing to restrict range of motion between treatments. Possibly even using ESWT if you have it. And in short order the overly loose tissues will shorten and the joint will tighten back up.

Originally Posted by Tutt
Well, there are a couple considerations when we consider structural joint mobility. On the one hand, if the only thing you care about is getting to 180, then the missing link in most training regimens is heat and strain rate control. So the exact same principals apply. Heat the tendons and ligaments to 42-43C and strain very slowly, then remove the heat and allow an ambient cool down at peak strain. Rinse and repeat.

But there are words of caution. If you are talking about front splits, I would say knock yourself out, because those are more heavily focused on muscle and tendon flexibility (I.e. Hamstrings, glutes, hip flexors, quads, etc). Increased range of motion in that regard is almost entirely beneficial. But it seems like you might be more interested in side splits, which are inherently more joint and bone structure dependent. Some people simply don’t have the pelvic structure to do a full side split. And be cautious that side splits are much more ligament focused. So even though the mechanism for lengthening and loosening them is the same, the result is actual joint mobility to the point of sloppy and slipping joints. Gymnasts and many martial artists overcome these risks by having incredibly well developed musculature that keeps the joints stable. But even then, dislocations are incredibly common in those sports. So be slow, methodical, and cautious.

Also remember, that if you experience negative side effect of ligaments that are too loose, you can use these same principals to reverse it. That is, heat the ligaments to 43C while not under any load, and then let them cool also while not under any load. Then use some type of physical bracing to restrict range of motion between treatments. Possibly even using ESWT if you have it. And in short order the overly loose tissues will shorten and the joint will tighten back up.

Awesome! Thanks so much for the detailed explanation!

Originally Posted by Tutt
Using a piece of pvc, create a phantom out of dragon skin silicone referred to elsewhere here. Then for me I just strap the autosound head in place with thin neoprene.

Just to confirm I’m understanding you correctly, I’m using a piece of cut cylindrical PVC to create a mould for the silicone which will result in a cylindrical silicone backing that will contour to the organ.

1) Do I get rid of the PVC after? I.e. It’s just a mold? Or can I leave it adhered to the silicone for stability?

2) Ideally, if I can use a sturdy material under the silicone backing that will offer some support, that will be perfect to allow some pressure with the US heads. If you didn’t mean that the PVC can stay which I think will indeed provide sufficient support, kindly recommend something if you have ideas?

3) Any suggestions on what materials I can use for the overall structure, I.e. To attach the lead screws, motor, etc to? The guy is busy wrapping up some stuff for this week, then I can engage him for the build, but I don’t want to waste time. He did suggest 3D printing but I want to use something that I can trial and error on my own. I was looking at 1/4 inch thick birch plywood, or 1/4 inch acrylic/plexiglass. I just don’t have any hands on experience with these materials to know if they’ll be strong and sturdy enough.

4) (See attached entitled ‘Pubic base’) - Would you happen to know what that threading is called? I want to buy something that I could screw it into, and also, the distance between the two primary rods (I.e. How wide?) That will help me plan things out.

Thanks for any help Tutt and anyone else that chimes in.

By the way, the guy submitted a bill of materials today for the electromechanical components. I’ll attach it for anyone interested.

*Notes on the attached
-I personally have some doubts about if the motor he suggested will be strong enough. On YouTube I saw a video with it being able to lift a ~1.5kg bottle of water and failing on a 1.75kg. I think that plus the gear reduction he suggested might take us within the region we need to produce loads of up to 3kg, hopefully after accounting for friction etc. To be safe though, I asked for a stronger motor, the Nema 17, so for anyone wanting to go this route to ensure your device will be able to pull the load with a safety margin, you’d need to pair with this driver: HiLetgo 2pcs A3967 Stepper Motor Drive Board https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00W … m/dp/B00WSNZEBM
-I also think the guy misunderstood how the device will be used, which is why he suggested a joystick. I explained that it would not be practical to hold down the joystick in the direction we’re aiming to elongate since it might be for periods of 10 minutes plus etc. I don’t mind a joystick since it allows multiple inputs with a single mechanism (up, down, left, right, etc) but it will have to be programmed contrary to what the attached elaborates. I.e. I’ll have it programmed such that one tap in one direction will begin straining at xmm/min without holding down the joystick, etc.

Once I finalize my build and confirm that everything works to fulfill the intended purpose, I’ll share the details and maybe an instructional. I’ll also freely share the final file that anyone can use to program their motor which should be as easy as plugging in a USB and uploading the code to the chip. Once I get some help with deciding some final materials, I’ll place my order, then once my stuff arrives, I’ll try to build the prototype.

Pubic base.PNG
(345.3 KB, 43 views)
Attached Files

Originally Posted by Tutt
In terms of US device, I prefer the Therasound w/ autosound applicator, but I understand it is expensive. The benefit is that it is hands free and has 4 emitters that cycle themselves with both 1mHz and 3mHz. Once in the strain device, just wrap the shaft with a phantom and strap on the autosound and start the treatment cycle.

Btw… use a silicon cap inside the vacuum cup and ensure the penis head fills the entire cup with no air pockets to both ensure precise measurement without slipping as well as avoid blisters.

Tutt, I researched that Therasound device. Yes, it does seem pricy! But, have you actually used it? I was curious as to how the autosound applicator may work in this application, but I agree that not having to move the heads around during a session would be a wonderful improvement.
Thanks

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