Is Turtling a bad they does it lessen gains.

Or is it a thing that happens. I know what causes it but I find it hard not to turtle. I trying a easier grip but still happened.

I don’t think it matters. If it’s a concern, try ending your session with 10-15 minutes of quality edging.

I’ve been edging sometime for the last 2 weeks it does help a little. Thanks for the reply I didn’t think it mattered either.

I don’t think anyone really knows. It would take 2 groups of a variety of individuals trying to control all variables to test if it is bad. I doubt that will ever happen.

All we have is pure speculation which I rank up there with superstition.

I used to turtle most days Pre-P.E.

Now I never do, even riding a bike.

I agree with titleist and bh, perhaps avoiding turtling could add to gains, but it is not essential to make gains at all. When you look at stretch applied intermittently to other connective tissues, they elongate over time even if left alone after each stretching session.

Turtling can eventually just stop happening with the same routine given a little time. I don’t think it’s helping gains as you do want it to heal bigger at least flaccid each time.

If it doesn’t stop after a few weeks I’ve found a bath or low pressure bathmate session works very well. I suppose a hot towel wrap could have a similar effect.

Don’t get me wrong, I use an ADS for peace of mind, but there is nothing to suggest healing longer/bigger flaccid has any effect. People have gained both ways. Most of the big gainers did not use an ADS/stayer for the majority their big growth phases. At this point it is just a theory.

Just do gentle piss pulls whenever you piss and don’t worry about turtling. It’s possible you may grow a tiny bit faster by avoiding turtling but it’s probably not significant enough to worry about and regular piss pulls will offset it.

I think it’s the body’s defense mechanism. The penis turtles to better heal the damage from pe and avoid further injury. Like when you sprain a joint and the range of motion is reduced. Usually rotating and gradually increasing the range of motion has a better outcome than just letting it heal tighter.

I think piss pulls will get the job done and some people go overboard with ADS. I’ve seen guys try to stay extended up to 24 hours even when sleeping and would call this way overboard but I think they do help with gains and realigning the lattice structure of the collagen fibers as it heals. Also I interpret turtling to be a good sign. It means you have caused enough damage to possibly induce deformation

I believe turtling slows gains. Extenders have shown constant elongation to allow the penis to permanently lengthen in size over a period of time that depends on many variables. After a PE session that is focused on length the penis is in a state that promotes lengthening and if the penis is allowed to contract and tighten the cells have more pressure towards each other rather than away from each other which is the proven way of lengthening the penis. Try keep you penis in an elongated state at all times. Now this doesn’t mean keeping an extender on 24hrs/day at full tension. ACE bandages and/or sports pre wrap can keep a penis elongated longer then its natural flaccid length and prevent turtling from occurring. Turtling is when the penis shortens and constricts more then in its normal flaccid state which will slow gains. It’s the reverse of what is shown to increase penis length.

I’m new here but have many years of PE experience

firegoat, agreed.

longerstretch, agreed. Connective tissue contracts after trauma. Piss pulls, as firegoat suggests, or simply waiting until your next PE session, assuming you are not taking very long breaks between each of them, is probably enough to prevent permanent contracture and break contracted adhesions. This is is just like intermittently working to increase the range of motion in a healing joint, as you say. Only in very severe cases of joint contracture is constant stretching used to increase the range of motion, and, in fact, intermittent stress relaxation methods have proven more effective for this than constant traction anyhow. Although in the study I am thinking of, they were applied three times per day for 30 minutes, I think. Here is that abstract.

LetsGrow123, I get the logic behind the theory, and I do use an ADS sometimes, but understand it is really just bro science, There isn’t anything to back it up besides some anecdotal reports of people gaining when using an ADS after stretching. But there are just as many, if not more, anecdotal reports of gains without an ADS.

I think there is an important distinction to make here:

ADS could be divided into those methods designed to produce gains and those merely designed to keep extended. If the ADS belongs to the former category (extenders, static stretchers, other moderate force traction devices), and the force being applied is high enough, the user will undoubtedly experience increased gains. It is the ADS’s that fall into the second category, which I believe we are discussing here - the kind which merely "hold" the penis stretched after heavier stretching such as hanging or heavy manual pulling and produce relatively low forces, which are unproven.

Roots

In regards to the original posters question of lessening gains we really don’t know if turtling lessens gains. People gain on both sides whether or not they do something to prevent it.

From reading all the posts from Bib he basically says when you hang that first set the following day you pull what has been trying to heal out. You are basically undoing that effect within minutes of that first hang. I am guessing his theory would apply to other methods also. Remember this is just his theory.

I have been juggling in my head this thing of tension and time as a X,Y graph for awhile. Mainly thinking about the difference between extending and hanging but even in the context of hanging only. Comparing the results of hardcore hanging versus the 10 hours a week plus that the rest do. Just trying to think if there is some point that is the absolutely most effective weight and time. My guess is the point is dynamic depending on where you are in your PE career. However, I am sure most of us aren’t even close to this maximum effectiveness.

Without doing some big study I don’t think we will ever truly know. The reason I bring it up, is it comes down to effectiveness and how much time every day you are willing to give to PE. I know I am nowhere near my maximum effectiveness with hanging.

I know my current gains would have been so much more if I was hanging 28 hours a week and making sure I never took days off and kept moving up in weight as my body tells me to.

Now to the point. I can wear a device or bandage wrap that can prevent me from losing some small amount of gains but I need to wear it 20 hours out of the day and let it invade the rest of my life by constantly worrying about it. What if instead I could just do a small 10 minute stretch routine every 8 hours to prevent the same loss. This all comes down to the individual choice and that choice is being made on unsubstantiated theories. Many of us have gained without a passive stretch device being worn all day.

My personal choice is before I allow something to consume my life, why don’t I just do a better job at my current routine. Then I can always add a maintenance 10 to 20 minute set every 8 hours if I am really worried that much about losing some miniscule amount of gains.

I am truly not trying to be harsh but sometimes I see these people that are trying to throw in every additional part of PE like diet, pills, creams, injections, heat, ADS, positive thinking, and who knows what else but their routine and their consistency of maintaining their routine is lacking. I absolutely fall into this lacking category. I am not saying any of the above isn’t effective and doesn’t make a strong addition to your routine. Just don’t neglect the actual meat of your program. Maximize your actual routine first.

This is just like me and my diet/exercise. I am researching and finding new eating ideas and exercise ideas all day long. During that time I am also not doing my cardio. I guarantee some good old cardio will burn more calories then any stupid little technique I find. Even if cardio wasn’t as effective as something that I magically find on the Internet, it doesn’t change the fact that cardio is still effective and would help me reach my goals. What I do know for a fact is I am burning very little calories looking for some magic pill when the answer is already in front of me and I am just not spending my time effectively.

bh, hit the nail on the head with that post!

Yes all of PE is pretty much unproven and anecdotal if not all of it. Even the gaining without ADS. I do believe the extender studies that have been done. Why did you say "hold" with scare quotes as if that is not what it is doing? Your ADS second category is for holding. It’s just for holding the with much less tension then something like an extender can provide. The second category ADS when using ACE wrap also does not provide much if any tension to the inner penis and ligaments. But for a person whose PE routine hits the shaft of the penis like the tunica with bundle stretching or fulcrum stretching an ADS like ACE bandage will provide some constant, even if low, tension.

When I think of the benefit of preventing turtling it comes to me as common sense. Now please don’t take that as me meaning you or anyone who doesn’t fully agree with me doesn’t have common sense. I’m not on this forum to make myself or people think I’m smarter then anyone. I enjoy these discussions and varying ideas. It is how everything in this world continues to progress and move forward. If I am proven wrong at anytime whether it be this subject or something unrelated to PE I am glad to be learning. My ego needs no checking. If the penis is allowed to turtle the cells have more closing pressure as they’re being drawn into each other more after positive trauma producing exercises which will slow down the cell generation that allows for the penis to grow. Having a constant opening pressure of the cells, even if slight, can only positively affect PE endeavors whereas I feel even though turtling will not prevent gains it can make them slower or in some people case prevent them. I believe it is possible that the people who have done PE routines consistently and become nonbelievers b/c they made no gains possibly could be related to not using an ADS and turtling.

Healing joints ROM improvement are greatly different from PE. The elasticity of even a fully functioning joint that isn’t healing due to injury or shoulder is drastically different from the elasticity of the penis to the point where stretching of skeletal muscles and joints shouldn’t be talked about and related to PE. If a muscle is stretched to increase flexibility it’s cells do not increase in number like they do with penis extender use. The same goes for joint tissue structures. Skeletal muscle and the different joint tissues in relation to stretching and flexibility can only increase in flexibility, not overall size like we are working to achieve with PE routines.

When it comes to the derogatory term "bro science", all of PE is bro science. Now bro science should be seen as a starting off point that is making advancements to be built upon . I remember being at a expo and Arnold schwarzenegger was speaking about not being afraid to find something that no one else does or believes is true or beneficial enough to do. He used isolating upper and lower bicep muscle area with specific bicep curl variations. When he and others began doing this most of the bodybuilding world told him it was useless and it would not be or lead to being beneficial. Now everyone in the competitive bodybuilding world does it.