Medical Verification

sparkyx,

There is also the paranoia mindset regarding many in the holistic community. A lot of that shit IS quackery. I can remember so many people talking about colloidal silver……….then I saw that guy that freakin’ turned blue! And its permanent.

Over the years, a number of stories/studies have come up regarding harm from certain holistic treatments.

But I would argue that there’s no funding because there’s no real belief in this. Remember also, the pharmaceutical industry also comes up with meds that treat very rare conditions. They know they’ll never make a profit from those types of meds (they already have their all-star money makers), but they do it in the interest of helping people…….seriously.

Wadzilla,

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree! I know we’re both looking for the truth and facts and I’m open to hearing any info on this matter that you post, looking forward to it as a matter of fact you write very interesting posts.

I know Hypertrophy doesn’t occur in PE like in bodybuilding where the muscle cells grow larger but don’t multipy, hey theres something we agree on!

And Scar tissue may form, but of course thats not desirable either.

BUT, I still believe that Mitosis DOES occur in PE though, possibly triggered by the microtears as they heal. The medical community HAS accepted traction as an accepted way to extend bodyparts though, and not just skin, but limbs including bones and everything else, so why should the penis be any different?

As per extending bones, I watched a long program about that. It’s a painful, grueling process which requires many surgeries & includes the actual breaking of the bones. Then there is some type of “scaffolding” placed between the broken ends, coated with bio materials which “guides” the healing of the bones along that track. Then this process is repeated again & again.

It’s hardly akin to what we do here.

As for other “bodyparts” being “extended,” do you have any references to this because I haven’t heard of it.

I know that they’ve kept certain bodyparts alive by reattaching it to another part of the body while an injury heals (such as “relocating” one’s ear to one’s abdomen, etc.), but I’ve only heard of skin being subjected to regular tractile stresses.

Of course, I believe that traction can elongate our weinies, or I wouldn’t be here. But I was just referring to the medical community. :)

Yeah too bad theres not more good medical information out there from reputable sources Wadzilla. Sometimes I think that us PE’ers know more than the doctors about this subject, not necessarily from a scientific standpoint, but definately from experience and doing what works. One of the reasons I am so concerned about how we grow is because if mitosis does take place then gains theoretically would be unlimited, but if plastic deformation is responsible for growth then gains would be limited. ;)

If that is true, that alone may be a piece of evidence in favor of plastic deformation over mitosis.

There have been other threads here before on limits to growth; one good one is The Upper Limit of PE: Does it exist?. My argument has been in a practical sense, if there were no limits to growth, there would have been some truly tremendously large and verified penises by now.

We have 90,000 members here at Thunder’s; do you believe that there aren’t at least a small number who would develop themselves past the point of practical use if they could?

You might also find this thread to be of interest:
some PE physiology

Lampwick, that "practical" argument thunders (pun intended :) ) louder than any theoretical argument: it’s right there, in our faces. We can’t avoid being confronted by it.

Do I "believe" this?
Uhhh….1001% I believe it. I can’t think of even 1 semi-reasonable argument against that speculation.

Listen, if we were "beef building" here, Dino would’ve had no cause to start his cool thread The two inch club, in which he opens, "Who here has a two inch length gain and "OR" over a .5 inch girth gain. Very few people seem to make it to the 2 inch mark, it takes a huge amount of effort and work and luck. I’m at 1.5 length and .5 girth gain…."

Rather, we’d see threads here such as, "Has anyone here NOT gained at least 2" of EL?" (and there might only be a few newbies who could respond in the affirmative).

And think about it really, what the hell is 2 measly inches? Especially since some guys have been doing this for years & years & years - and all forms of PE also (manual, hanging, ADS, pumping, etc., etc., etc.).

We should have a number of 4-, 5-, even 6-inch gainers here. But why hasn’t anybody gained that much?

Answer: Because the penis cannot stretch that much (i.e., "deform").

Wad, I have to say, I mostly agree with this…and the part where I hold out hope for some sort of real “growth” of some type, may be wishful thinking. Time will tell. Overall, I would say for most guys, stretching and “splaying” of fibers is the primary mechanism.

How about your buddy, didn’t he get about 4 inches? Do you think his report was inaccurate, do you think he had an exceptional amount of “stretch” potential, or do you think that he tapped into some type of “growth” mechanism. In “some type of growth” I am including damage and repair that expands the tunica.

Funny you should mention this as I’d been thinking about him recently myself.

First, he didn’t actually claim a full 4.00 inches. He said he started “about 5 inches,” and he claimed that he was “about” (or “almost” - can’t remember) 9 inches. I remember tending to think he may have been 5 or a little over, and finished at not quite 9” long. Still, he would’ve been claiming a gain of at least 3.5” or so, you would think.

If you’ll recall, I distinctly remember him having a tiny flaccid as he was one of only a few guys (who were not obese) who had a smaller flaccid than I had (you probably remember my laments about being a massive grower, not a show-er).

Anyway, I’ll bet his NBP flaccid was only about 1.5” or so (if that). I never saw him erect, but years later he told me he was “about 5 inches” (erect). As we were seniors in H.S., and he seemed well beyond puberty, I doubt that his unit grew anymore naturally. Therefore, I would believe that he was also 5” erect back then. Which means, of course, that he more than tripled his length when he became erect.

That would suggest extreme elasticity.

And would, of course, fit right in with my theory that growth is achieved as elasticity is exhausted. In other words, all of the exercises we do gradually stretch the tissues beyond their ability to return to their original state. The amount of deformation (i.e., “gains”) we might achieve depends upon the amount of elasticity that an individual was genetically endowed with.

The greater the elasticity, the greater the potential for ultimate gains (for the “grower”). However, gains would be more difficult for the individuals with the most elasticity.

The less the elasticity, the less overall potential for gains. Yet, gains would usually come more quickly for the guy with a low amount of elasticity (i.e., a “show-er”).

Good thinking, I like it.

Hmm this seems interesting and it may explain my case with PE.

I have always been a “show-er” when it comes to flaccid. I started with a 4” NBPFL and around 6” NBPEL (only 2” difference from soft to hard) FG was around 4” and EG was around 4.3” (0.3” difference from soft to hard).

Currently I sit at around 6.5” NBPFL and 7” NBPEL (only 0.5” difference from soft to hard) FG is about 5” and EG is now 5.125” (only 0.125” from soft to hard).

Pretty much all of my length gains were in my first year of PE (I am on my 3rd now). As you can see, whatever elasticity I had is virtually gone. I have pretty much become the ultimate show-er (which I am not complaining about).

So, according to this theory of elasticity, I have pretty much maxed out my gain potential?

braindrain,

I wouldn’t necessarily say you’ve “maxed out” your gains, but you have gained quite a bit (trust me, a legit 1.5”+ of EL gains is impressive).

As one truly approaches their *Ultimate Potential* their flaccid size will be really close to their erect size. You may or may not have some more size left in you, but gains certainly become exponentially tougher. It all depends on how stubborn/obsessed you remain for more gains.

Take heart, however, in that you’ve gained quite a bit - far more than most.

So if in my case I have 2 inch NBPFL and 5 inch NBPEL I am theoretically a grower and have the potential to grow but it will take longer than the ‘shower’.Would this be correct?I’ve also noted interestingly enough that my max stretch length when flaccid or semi-erect is the same as my El.This seems to correlate in some way with what Wadzilla is saying.I think

Certainly, with a F:E ratio of 2.5:1, you are a grow-er (i.e., posess a lot of elasticity). Depending on how long you’ve been doing PE, you probably have quite a bit of gains potential (2” + of EL gains).

Considerations of variances in FSL vs. EL don’t really factor into this. I’ve noticed that this can differ for a number of reasons (for example, I suspect that guys with more girth might be able to get a greater FSL because they can “telescope” out further; vice-versa, the opposite might be true as well).

The F:E ratio doesn’t really factor in the FSL variable.

You should be able to make good gains, over the long haul, but you probably won’t make quick gains (beyond the first month or too). [for example, I gained 1/2” EG in my 1st 5 weeks and about 1” EL in my first 5 or 6 months - but then in was a VERY SLOW grind for that next 0.8” EG & 1 1/8”+ of EL…”slow,” meaning years].

This is coinciding with what I am seeing. When I firsted started PE in 2006 I utilized the Modified Newbie Routine that babbis posted and made pretty great gains. I believe most of these gains were from EQ improvement although erections prior to that were always hard as a rock anyway so I am not certain that my gains came from that. I gained 15mm (.59”) in EL and 11mm (.43”) in EG from 6 PE sessions - two rounds of the modified newbie routine. I then took a long decon and just last month started up again - I had a few small sessions on rare occasion but for the most part had done nothing this whole time. I had kept all of my gains from prior, but thus far I haven’t gotten anything in the way of gains. So, not much in the way of newbie gains … but what I did get in that time came damn easy.

Further progress seems like it is going to be a challenge and I am trying to find the right key to unlocking further progress. My NBPFL is between 70-95mm (2.75” and 3.7”) and my BPEL is 160mm (6.29”) my EG is 136mm (5.35”) and my BPSFL is around 153mm. Definitely a grower and according to that presented here it would seem I have high elasticity. If that is the case why, when I manually stretch, does it not feel like it is stretching at all? I don’t seem to get much in the way of stretch from my unit. When taking my BPSFL measurement after a few tugs I can measure my NBPFL around 110-120mm (it won’t stay in that range though), so after picking up my unit to get the measurement there isn’t much pull left to it. Does this mean I really don’t have that much elasticity?

- Chris

Wad, do you think that high elasticity ratio tunicas might respond better to longer time, lower force than higher collagen ratio?

I bring that up because guys who used to use the thera-p band during the day almost always found a large increase in flaccid size, which to me means the elastin is being effected.