Finding xeno: a penis tale

Xeno’s been gone for 16 months at this point, so, unless he’s on a “Super-macro-R” phase, it seems he might have left for good.

I wanted to ask:

1. How important is it that we chart our progress for the characteristic function of our gains?

2. Is there a margin of error we could just stay within as an alternative?

3. Is there a projected average at the centre of that range?

4. What’s the potential range of work multiplier coefficients, and is there a projected, predictable or estimable average?

5. What routine he’d recommend for mapping gains to identify the characteristic function of gains.

6. Can he give an easier and slightly more detailed explanation of how to superimpose the plots on to a graph to establish the work multiplier coefficient.

I’m sorry I got here so late. It would have been good to have been able to clarify the above. :/

Okay, well I found this:

Ultimately I guess I’ll just use Xeno’s figures as a jumping off point, to establish if I either need more intensity or less.

I’m just on my second read through of this thread. I’ll keep reading.

If there are people here that understand the math behind this stuff and can shed light on the questions above, I’d very much appreciate hearing from you. Thanks.

I think worry less about the math. It’s very hard to replicate what Xeno did. You need to have substantial data to come up with those numbers.

It’s very hard in practice to measure how much intensity you are applying over 2-3 weeks and trying to hit those work multipliers. It’s easier with hanging because there is time under tension and weight, which you can progressively overload. But with soft tissue work it’s hard, way too many variables.

That is why with the latter, I am just going from 0 to MAX work every week 1 day. Just killing it with the TTr, and then heal for 1 week. Repeat. That way I don’t have to worry about increasing the intensity because I am always hitting the MAX intensity every time. The downside, or should I say upside, is that I can only train once a week. Seeing good results I think. I think Xeno was leaning towards this in the later years of his career. Reporting working out only sat and sun and resting or micro p for a week.

How much are you gaining?

I think you’re right there, re. worrying less about the math. Also I’m not sure anyone but Xeno would be able to unpack his thinking on why the initial figures and theories he’d used were appropriate to the practice, as I’m not sure there was enough information given for anyone with a similar knowledge base to extrapolate, but to be honest, the more closely I read on IPR, the less I think it matters.

Even Xeno went on to comment on the membership’s obsession with figuring out how it works:

https://www.thundersplace.org/progress-reports/finding-xeno-a-penis-tale-12.html?highlight=finding%20xeno#post716882

Also, we have what seems to be reliable data from Shiver and MX too, as reported by Xeno, which gives as reliable a guideline as we ever seem to get with P.E., if not more so:

https://www.thundersplace.org/progress-reports/finding-xeno-a-penis-tale-12.html?highlight=finding%20xeno#post716882

Even with things as they are, assuming the measuring and reporting is accurate, you’d probably need a larger sample size to formulate a reliable guideline, but the only three people that truly understood the theory at its inception getting the same results could very well be statistically significant.

Ultimately I guess it comes down to whether or not the method works, and it does seem to work, so regardless of where it originated and how it did, the method at least does seem to be valid (in as much as that it produces results).

And I think it’s worth stating again that Xenolith himself went on to say we should forget about the why and focus on the how; and that there’s too much covarience to really understand the why.

I think this thread is a really interesting read from start to finish and I’ve been reading it very closely, but there’s no doubt that his recommended method did change quite considerably along the way, and yes he did eventually end up with a week long cycle:

https://www.thundersplace.org/progress-reports/finding-xeno-a-penis-tale-55.html#post2416035

As for figuring out intensity I guess it’s just a case of trial and error as Xenolith always advocated.

I don’t want to call it yet but BPEL +0.2 and EG +0.2. Considerably girthier below the glans. CS considerably larger, probably accounting for 80% of gain. CCs harder. PIs excellent. EQ100% most days. Starting to look and feel big even in my own hand, heavy too. Wife mentioned “did it get bigger? It’s definitely bigger? right?” I had to play dumb and pretend with a smile on my face. She once said “I think your penis must def. be big” since she’s only been with me. And she’s never said that pre TTr IPR. Sex is much better and tighter now and I can tell she enjoys it more. She says it’s too big sometimes when we are starting. My fingers don’t touch anymore when wrapped around. Lots of positive indicators.

Yes. Bear in mind though that IPR is a protocol, but IPR happens to all of PE, because it’s just how the body heals. I think this was best discussed in a thread called “what do we think about IPR?”

So while Xeno gained a lot with IPR. A lot of other PE’ers gained a lot as well without that specific IPR protocol.

The most important take away from IPR is the R. When I started PE I hardly rested. Understanding IPR gave me the framework necessary for PE. “I” is important in that you are causing enough deformation through increasing intensity each time. I think the P phase is not really important. In a minimalist approach, doing I and R will yield 80%+ of the results. For those who have time do P and get MAYBE an extra 20% . I personally have tried doing P but it just takes a lot of time and the gain differential is not measurable IMO. Xeno mentions this too but he did see results from P. Specially from his SS and BB. It hasn’t worked for me because I believe I have one of those limiting factor cords that I need to address through fulcrum hanging. So there’s that too, all out units are different, so one approach may not work, if you have something that limits you specifically. So while the SS and BB and CC have not worked for me, the TTr has for girth and some length. But once I get the cord resolved, it probably will. I rather do IR, IR, IR, IR. Setting R as necessary based on PIs. Because your “I” sessions won’t always be the same intensity, so why should R. Cause and effect after all. The scientific method.

The idea behind the P phase is that it keeps things elongated and expanded while the collagen is deposited. But you don’t think it’s worth doing? You think it’s better to go straight to the R phase?

It would seem to make sense to skip it, if it didn’t negatively affect gains in the R phase.

But BeardedDragon writes this:

I tried P phase for a couple macro cycles and then without P phase and the results for me at least where the same. That being said, P cycle is more of a length thing I think. That’s why I said I have to address the hard cords so that they permit more length growth. But these cords are tough so the tension from P phase is like hanging an apple from a shoe string. It Is not going to do anything. However, for me I think I need to solely hang to have that shoestring actually deform. And hang everyday with a fulcrum. It’s a different animal.

I think if you don’t have the cord P phase would do you well.

Or correct me if I am wrong in that P phase is not just for length.

I tried cock rings for P phase for girth. Never did anything but sustain fluid buildup and fool myself.

If it helps…in response to this:

Xeno posted this:

Which seems to be pretty conclusive?

One could argue that it was just for his routine and that cock rings might work for girth if you’re not doing these same exercises, but he only really spoke about cock rings towards the beginning of this (his) progress thread and they seemed to disappear from his routine entirely once he developed the cock coil.

Yes, I recall reading that now. I am still not sure how a CC provides radial stress as it is just tugging lengthwise. If anything it seems counterintuitive as the CC would cause a sort of chinese finger trap effect where the penis narrows. Maybe the stress caused by narrowing is what he is talking about?

The cock coils, especially the smaller of the two, are very light. The smaller of the two gives as much force as part way between the first two gradients of a Penimaster, which, when wearing a Penimaster, you’re supposed to progress past quite rapidly just as a way to get used to using the device.

All that that kind of force really does is keep the penis elongated, without applying stress. I think the idea is that cock coils elongate the tissues and open up and elongate the micro-tears so that they fill with more collagen rather than the collagen bunching up and layering on top of itself.

Maybe there’s an argument for not using an extender, or ads for radial growth for that reason; I don’t know, I’m just reporting as to Xenolith’s postings.

Maybe he switched to solely using cock coils so as to improve his length to girth growth ratio. He did write later on in the thread that his girth was growing faster than his length and that it might be necessary to supplement such a routine with Sumo Stretches and Bucking Broncos to try and get the length to girth growth ratio to 1:1.

His advice mainly seemed to stem from the belief (formed through practice, experimentation and careful and diligent measuring) that everyone should switch to his IPR routine at the point where newbie gains started to slow. His advice implicitly/tacitly discounts other methods

But he did say that he thought there was no place for a cock ring in PE, which is quite a conclusive statement, and which makes me believe he didn’t think they were effective for P.E. in any capacity. There are people out there that do believe in using cock rings as a form of ads, for girth gains, but going by that statement, Xenolith didn’t seem to believe so.

As for cock coils potentially causing constriction, here are a couple of responses he gave to similar concerns:

xenolith - Finding xeno: a penis tale

xenolith - Finding xeno: a penis tale

Here’s BeardedDragons description of the effect of using a cock coil from his progress thread:

BeardedDragon - BeardedDragon Update Thread

It seems to me from reading these that, assuming cock rings really don’t help girth gains, (and I can’t speak as to that as I don’t know whether they do or not) then the only drawback to using a cock coil is that it might give you extra unwanted length if you don’t need or want any more length.

Personally I’ve not been able to test the cock coil yet as I ordered the wrong kind of heat shrink tube sleeve and am waiting on the arrival of a re-order.

This seems plausible. Are you thinking the tears on the radial axis would gap via the lengthening as it is perpendicular to the tear? And the weight would just have to be minimal for the gap to stay open while healing. Maybe this is what he means by a little is better than nothing but a lot is not much better than a little.

That’s an interesting question as it suggests that longitudinal elongation under force might hold longitudinal tears closed.

But to try and answer that question: To be honest I don’t know, but assuming the tears are longer in the lateral direction than they are in the longitudinal direction then yes, I think they’d probably be held open by an extension, rather than being stretched as they potentially could be if the tears are longitudinal. But that assumes the tears are longer than they are wide, which I can’t confirm. They might not be tears as we’re used to thinking of them, they might be much less neat and orderly and more, albeit very roughly, symmetrical.

But if they are longer than they are wide then potentially, if longitudinal tears of this kind would be stretched closed by longitudinal force, then work that causes radial tearing might actually be more effective for length gains than soft tissue tearing in a longitudinal direction; if longitudinal force is to be applied for elongation without further stress, as with something such as a cock coil.

BeardedDragon might be able to shed more light on that as I believe he understands the healing processes involved. Unfortunately I don’t, so all I can really do is speculate.

Xeno recommended exercises for girth prior to length work due to it disrupting the tissues in a way that would help longitudinal gains. Maybe the reason for it being effective in that respect is that the tears are longer then they are wide and are being stretched open rather than being stretched closed.

However having said that, if the tears are roughly symmetrical it would still make sense to stress the tissues radially before length work because of how effective girth-focused exercises are for disrupting the tissues.

If the tears are longer than they are wide, it might turn out that the best way to actually promote length gains in the soft tissue is to focus on girth exercises for radial stress and then to just extend the penis longitudinally with a low weight ADS such as a Cock Coil.

I’d like to get BeardedDragons thoughts on that, I’m going to PM him and direct him to this post in the hope that he can and/or will add something to this.

As to the weight only needing to be minimal, basically yes, it would only need to be heavy enough to hold the penis in an extended state while not so heavy that it would cause additional inflammation, which would probably disrupt the process.

As for a little being better than nothing but a lot not being much better than a little, I don’t see the logic behind that statement. I’d assume the extension would be best maintained throughout the Micro/Macro-P phase. Maybe by that he meant a little weight might be better than a lot of weight. I’d imagine a heavy traction ADS could potentially disrupt the process.

He also stated this about the importance of the Cock Coil:

That might also shed some light on what he thought of cock rings: more or less negligable as compared to Cock Coils, which themselves aren’t really of that much importance. This might be why he asserted that cock rings have no place in P.E. As to the actual efficacy of cock rings I think that’s probably a discussion for the All Day Cock Ring For Amazing Girth Gains thread.

I’d say that if the assumption that the tears to the soft tissue being longer than they are wide is correct, then, the Cock Coils would be of paramount importance, and indispensable to the process.

In that respect I’d say that, at the ideal weight, a lot (in terms of time) is much much better than a little, to the point of being essential and absolutely indispensable to the process, as long as the coils are worn within the correct time-frame.

I’d like to get BeardedDragon’s opinion.

Apologies for the double-post. The second paragraph above was supposed to read: