Thunder's Place

The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

Gaining volume with Kyrpa

Originally Posted by Buckfever
Source for breakaway coaster clamp?

Could you elaborate on the reasoning for the proposed periodization/longer break timelines?

You´ll find them on ebay. I got mine from UK seller.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr…asters&_sacat=0

It need some tuning, you need to cut those sharp “wings” out of the center piece. Then you will need a silicon tube to cover the noose.
Capernicus1 has used similar assembly as a clamp for a long time and have some detailed info posted of this topic.

Addition to his assembly I use a rubbery cockring inside of it, having a groove on the outer circumference, noose fitting tightly on the groove.

Well the peridiozation which I keep talking about and the reasoning behind would need a another thread I suppose.
I think I have made a half a dozen posts at least opening the reasoning to some extend and I feel it hard to condense all in one post, but I will try anyway.
But may I ask a little time to compose the answer well enough as I feel it is not a easy one.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
You´ll find them on ebay. I got mine from UK seller.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr…asters&_sacat=0

It need some tuning, you need to cut those sharp “wings” out of the center piece. Then you will need a silicon tube to cover the noose.
Capernicus1 has used similar assembly as a clamp for a long time and have some detailed info posted of this topic.

Addition to his assembly I use a rubbery cockring inside of it, having a groove on the outer circumference, noose fitting tightly on the groove.

Well the peridiozation which I keep talking about and the reasoning behind would need a another thread I suppose.
I think I have made a half a dozen posts at least opening the reasoning to some extend and I feel it hard to condense all in one post, but I will try anyway.
But may I ask a little time to compose the answer well enough as I feel it is not a easy one.

Whenever you can get to it, I’d appreciate it.


Big cock, tight abs, fit body, strong mind.

Periodization reasoning part 1

Originally Posted by Buckfever

Could you elaborate on the reasoning for the proposed periodization/longer break timelines?

Before reading the following context, I should encourage the reader to get rid of the preset of widely supported injury healing model described often to be the sole source of the tunica and so
on the penis growth we are after. Which would mean us causing some micro damages to be healed
through the instant inflammation reaction, followed with the proliferation and eventually remodeling the initially sparsely repaired structure with the final structure of healthy normal collagenous tissue.

There is more into it as we barely need to cause any kind of trauma to induce penis lengthening. Though we can´t exclude the model completely IF there is actually trauma caused in the first place, but if NOT the gains achieved despite the absence of trauma can´t be explained at all within the IPR model.

So if we are looking for conclusive model for why we truly make gains, we need to look more openly into natural growth models not fixating the interest on the narrow spectrum of injury healing.
We are causing growth directly by stressing the tissue which reacts to the externally applied stress by growth response. Direct consequence of exercise induced strain not indirectly via healing responses.
This is clearly seen as the gains extender users are achieving over time with low to moderate loads and steady progression on the verge of tissue elongation and the adaptation to the applied
stimulus. Without a trauma whatsoever. Also, we need to stay away from the established protocols of
muscular development. Those methods which without an exception, are based on progressive stress delivery methods, fitting very poorly on aspirations to enlarge the tunica.

Overall, there is no need to cause any trauma worth mentioning for inducing penile growth if the tools and methods are right.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Periodization reasoning part 2

ADAPTATION AND AVOIDING STRENGTHENING
Connective tissues such as tunica albuginea, a ligamentous skeleton of the penis as it has been described In one of papers studying penis anatomy, is a construction of fibrous collagenous
tissue. This fibrous structure bear the loads during the erection and also is the structure stressed by external load as we do in PE.

Applying a stretching force to the penis these external forces are delivered through the extra cellular matrix (ECM) via collagen fibers to the mechanosensing cells (fibroblasts), the extracellular stress level raising to equal the externally applied stress level,the process is called mechanotransduction. The force applied
externally pulling the tissue apart is internally pulling the tissue to maintain the form. These forces reach the cellular level and some that will remain after the external forces has been removed.

Collagen being inactive entity, simple load carriers to be under continuous renewal and regeneration,
ECM being the active operator maintaining the processes. This stress being continuously applied by daily workouts will cause the connective soft tissue to adapt to the environment,
seeking the homeostasis. That can be managed only by strengthening the tissue seen as the net collagen accumulation over time. The connective tissue becomes stronger by the cross sectional area increase, and becoming stiffer in general making it harder to elongate.

PE practitioner counter-reacting to this by progressive loading will ignite non-stopping loop jeopardizing future development.
As we can understand we should avoid this kind of development and still be able to elongate the tissue. That being a task of dancing on the razors edge, as to elongate we need to use the same mechanism differently to adapt the tissue to the newly introduced STRAIN not the STRESS.

There come the techniques we use in the major role. What should go without mentioning is that obviously getting the best possible strain on the tissue with the lowest possible stress level during exercises, is the first and foremost important strategy to avoid the adaptation to applied stress.

Also, more abusive the methods are, in other words more micro damage caused the more significant is the adaptation by strengthening as a result, despite even getting some gains in a
mean time. ECM will build up internal cumulative residual stress as a consequence of simply the elongation, and similarly because of the continuously applied external stresses due workouts.
So the more there are gains in a given timeline and the abusive the workouts have been, the higher is the residual stress.
This residual stress has been hypothesized for being in major part limiting natural growth of any living tissue. Further development on science will have some proper answers in coming decades orso, being under great interests and growing understanding pretty much over last decade only.

Coming back to responses on single workout the fibroblasts will react to external forces applied to the tissue by proliferation. In other word with accelerated expression of new
collagen. Simultaneously the degradation of existing collagen accelerates.

Workouts continued to be repeated daily for a month have not been seen building up net collagen content on connective tissue. But similarly continued for 11 weeks, the net collagen content in daily exercised tendons for instance, show significant net collagen content increase.
So at this stage the TA is in anabolic state and not in a positive manner for us , collagen degradation is absent and while new collagen formation increased it is becoming stronger and harder to stretch any further. Whether or not the net collagen accumulation will immediately show adaptation in a magnitude hindering penis elongation remains under speculation.

But clear indications have been seen, not only in my work, including several others having the tools in disposal giving tremendous BPFSL gains for maximum of three months before diminishing returns and eventually having no gains at all.

Not using progressive loading patterns over time and not combating the diminishing returns by increasing workout volume there can be some interesting observations and conclusions to be made.
In fact markers are recognizable significantly earlier, already after 45 days the post exercise BPFSL measurement stalling despite the pre-exercise BPFSL still constantly gaining for another 20 days or so.
Keeping the strain development and the BPFSL gains as a guidance there is clear formulation seen and simply as an evidence too hard to be ignored. All this having at least two resting days or more between three workouts.

Having some nerve to claim there is not much to ask for the BPFSL gains during single campaign with the tools in disposal. Therefor it is reasonable to suggest that maximum of three months is the ultimate duration for the workout period to last. And it would be preferred to call it a day soon after the gains have stalled.

The tools to combat the adaptation include different measures at different stages.
Single one hour long exercise for human male Achilles tendon can induce proliferation and simultaneous-ly increased collagen degradation for 3-4 days. Therefor we can assume that working out several days back to back we are not giving the tissue any rest, the induced processes trying to get the homeostasis for days.

One day workout following three days of rest would be the ideal, had the workouts be efficient enough. This would be the perfect scenario avoiding the adaptation maximally.
Then for the gains to keep coming we need to make a compromise between the progression or avoiding the adaptation.
With the concept in use I have been using, there have been gains coming steadily with three days workouts and two days rest.
As told in the prior section the adaptation couldn´t be avoided with the workout schedule .

As we already know this protocol in combination of decons from 3 weeks to two month between workout periods, has not been ideal reaching the plateau after 1.5 years continuation.
Therefor after successful extended decon of 5+1 months, the periodization in this case, will be 2-3 months of work following 2-3 months decons until plateauing.
Remains to be seen if it will be the case or will there be natural limits reach as such not being able to con-firm the chances working.

Keeping the workout duration as short as possible, using vigorous heating and lowest possible stress for the best possible strain, would be tactics to keep the adaptation response for exercises low.
Taking at least two days rest every three days, if the gain rate stays high having even more rest, it would be ideal to keep the adaptation response for the cumulative stress as low as possible.
More rest you can incorporate to the workout schedule the lower the net collagen accumulation after the first month carefree phase will be.
Shorter the workout period the better when avoiding the strengthening of the tissues. Ideal would be having no longer than one month long workout campaign at time.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Periodization reasoning part 3

REVERSING THE ADAPTATION

What comes to reverse adaptation first and foremost important is the rest days. During workout cycles, and between the working periods.
If the workout loads have been heavy and in the same time elongation have been significant during the workout period , the longer the decon following should be.
Talking about the residual stress in the tunica ECM it accumulated summary over time and directly rela-tive to the elongation percentage of the tunica. Having girth gains simultaneously this will be added into count.

The concept of cellular stresses include few different mathematical models but the main principle is that the decrease of the stress inside the ECM decreases following power law exponent of -0.08 for cellular stress in soft tissues.
This is the closest we can assume and making the calculus we can form graph of a decay showing a 40% reduction in one day, 70% reduction in one month , 75 % reduction in one year , 80% in ten years etc.

So as a simplified example having a 20% increase on BPFSL during the 1,5 years campaign , having de-cons of three week, one month , 6 weeks and two months during, there will be still stress level remaining which would need three months of total rest to settle down to 4% higher than at the beginning of the 1.5 years run. This picture would have been way worse if not taken those resting times between.

That was for the growth induced stress accumulation only. We have no clue about the workout methods piling the stress over this.
So if we get into that level of science on describing the length of the decon after total plateau the results will be most certainly always minimum of three months.
Taking two to three months off between every two to three month campaigns will substantially lower the cumulative residual stress and there for the need for significantly extended decons in a long run.

So taking this long decons relatively often are enough to serve as a reversing the workout adaptation as well.
It would need full rest and inactivity for at least two weeks to starting to see collagen degradation markers to show out in tendons. This have seen in immobilized limbs so for active sex life having individual the time is somewhat of a question mark.

Penis still having lots of inactive time during the day the processes should be significantly faster than for any other ligament in the body for instance.
Lots of adaptation reversal should happen in two to three months if the workout protocols have been non-abusive. Then again the abusive method used shall take its toll in this case again.

Because the PE is ongoing nature of collagen remodeling process there is very little to make a case on remodeling phases used as a guidance for decon plans.
I know that the IPR gurus have build their theories upon the remodeling schedule but if they were truthful to their preferences, they should take at least 240 days or more decon after each of their IPR workout regimen.

That said as the reader might have already figured out these timings presented here are as well partly build on many hypotheses and theoretical models. But at least I have not fabricated those in the first place and are partly build on schematically measured observations, not based on any feel based anecdotal PIs whatsoever.
Some crucial things and aspects remain unknown to be said anything confirmed other than decons are inevitable.

There remains the big unknown if the ongoing non-stop process of highly accelerated collagen renewal will put the progress on halt time to time because the un-maturation of the collagen fibrous structure need some time to be finished in general before further gains.

Either it is that or the residual stress accumulation, which causes the total plateaus despite the scheduled decons in the way. As long as we don´t have histological studies available on results of the PE process we have to grab on some info we can find and rely on it.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Periodization reasoning part 4

DISCUSSION
Not having the conclusive formula for the time intervals for the periodization, there is still enough knowledge to suggest to keep the training periods 2-3 months long at longest.
Keeping 2-3 months deconditioning breaks as a recuperation periods between it should be possible to keep the gains locomotive at full steam during the workout periods.
It is enough time to lower the ECM residual stress, getting far enough into net collagen degradation phase still maintaining the acceptable remaining gains level.
Some will be lost but that is the reasonable price to pay.

Now after the best available science has been taken seriously into consideration, mixed with the data gathered with bullet proof gaining protocol the conclusion it is easy to make in the favorite of scheduled periodization.

Similarly, there are plenty of examples of the past pioneers addressing similar issues with similar outcomes despite the reasoning behind does not always hold the water.
The gains come in relative short bursts then starting to diminish or plateauing completely.
Taking all the knowledge available in count it seems to be reasonable to claim that continuous full year non-stopping engagement on PE is not justified by science, user experiences or by common sense either.

With the mentioned concepts we should be able to maximize longterm gains and minimizing the tissue strengthening.
Unfortunately, even that won´t necessary save us from still drifting into plateau because of the on going constant remodeling processes denying any further gains.
If we are hypothesizing the fully complete collagen remodeling being the last unavoidable obstacle, that being the case we are looking in theory for minimum of absence 7-12 months, before getting into gaining train again. Believing that would be the case for total plateau then go for it.

Or at least waiting until the BPFSL does not lose length anymore and continue to be on the decon few months after that.

If the complete plateau happens because of the residual cellular stress, that being the case we may need several years to lower it enough. If you don’t gain anymore then stop PE.

At the end we don´t simply know enough. Even modern science has barely scratched the surface of the restrictions of the growth limitations. But we can always try again after resetting the system. Waiting for the longterm controlled extender studies with full spectrum histological examinations to arrive. Don´t know if ever will.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

“There remains the big unknown if the ongoing non-stop process of highly accelerated collagen renewal will put the progress on halt time to time because the un-maturation of the collagen fibrous structure need some time to be finished in general before further gains.”

It seems to me you’re trying to answer the question presently.

“Waiting for the longterm controlled extender studies with full spectrum histological examinations to arrive. Don´t know if ever will.”

I don’t think we will. Restorex with a commercial price of $500 was probably the only chance for such funding and they discontinued the study at one year. Soon we’ll have some data on that which will be helpful on the short and long run duration of applied traction, but there won’t be anything on remodeling.

It is interesting the applicaiton of periodization that you are applying, it’s similar to game theory in that an individual game should be sub optimized so that the totality of a course of games can be maximized.

And I see that it is melding into known clinical observations. You’re going to need more time though, to parse it.

Thank you for your response!


Big cock, tight abs, fit body, strong mind.

Wow!!! Great material!!! Very Interesting!!!


Starting (07/15/20): BPEL 6.5” BPFSL 6.5” MSEG 4.75” BEG 4.75” BPFL 4.5”

Current (10/27/20): BPEL 7.0” BPFSL 7.5” MSEG 5.0”+ BEG 5.25” BPFL 5.25-5.75”

Goal: BPEL 7.5” MSEG 5.5” BEG 6.0” BPFL 6.5”

Just discovered this thread. Wow, haha, just wow. It’s a tad “sciencey” for my taste, but I respect it. However, I can’t imagine too many guys buying into the notion that they have to stop PEing for 6-12 months, or years even, just to gain optimally. Nevertheless, if the data ever comes out showing that is the best way to gain long term, you bet I’d sign up.

Originally Posted by Braun
Just discovered this thread. Wow, haha, just wow. It’s a tad “sciencey” for my taste, but I respect it. However, I can’t imagine too many guys buying into the notion that they have to stop PEing for 6-12 months, or years even, just to gain optimally. Nevertheless, if the data ever comes out showing that is the best way to gain long term, you bet I’d sign up.

Yeah,
I bet they wont either.
As long as they get into taking more rest days, and having those short duration decons the necessity for extended decons gets smaller.
After all, every worth to listen former and present PE´ers have been taking and recommending decon breaks for decades.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Buckfever
“There remains the big unknown if the ongoing non-stop process of highly accelerated collagen renewal will put the progress on halt time to time because the un-maturation of the collagen fibrous structure need some time to be finished in general before further gains.”

It seems to me you’re trying to answer the question presently.

“Waiting for the longterm controlled extender studies with full spectrum histological examinations to arrive. Don´t know if ever will.”

I don’t think we will. Restorex with a commercial price of $500 was probably the only chance for such funding and they discontinued the study at one year. Soon we’ll have some data on that which will be helpful on the short and long run duration of applied traction, but there won’t be anything on remodeling.

It is interesting the applicaiton of periodization that you are applying, it’s similar to game theory in that an individual game should be sub optimized so that the totality of a course of games can be maximized.

And I see that it is melding into known clinical observations. You’re going to need more time though, to parse it.

Thank you for your response!

Yeah Buck,

Unfortunately we don´t have the biopsies taken out of our TA. So we can´t confirm anything about anything.
What we can do is the phenomenal modelling, but there is a risk of fitting the observed development into the model falsely,
not taking every variant in the play, ignoring the unknowns. I think that is what happened with the IPR group.

Actually I was here for the short term profits, but seems that I have already extended the time frame of this investment.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Excellent posts Kyrpa.

Is seems like the most valuable research and data was produced very early in science. One of the most directly influential studies for our cause is the classic Rat Tail Tendon from 1958.


Period 1: 06/08/2020 BPFSL: 22cm (8.66") BPEL: 22cm (8.66") EG: 15.8cm (6.25") => 09/07/2020 BPFSL: 23.9cm (9.40")

Period 2: 05/01/2021 BPFSL: 24cm (9.44") BPEL: 22cm (8.66") EG: 15.8cm (6.25") => 07/24/2021 BPFSL: 25.4cm (10.00") BPEL: 23.5cm (9.25")

Goal: 1 Foot x 7.5 Inches (30.48cm x 19.05cm) NBPEL

Originally Posted by igigi
Excellent posts Kyrpa.
Is seems like the most valuable research and data was produced very early in science. One of the most directly influential studies for our cause is the classic Rat Tail Tendon from 1958.

It was a ignition and LaBan 1962, Warren & Lehmann 1970,1971,1976 brought it to another level. Since then the basics have not been studied much and the modern science should look more closer into heat induced molecular changes during the elongation.
But they never got to the level of confirmation the mechanics of heat induced elongation. The knowledge remained on hypothesis basis with the molecular changes.

Later on there have been studies finding fibril and/ or fiber sliding producing permanent elongation on connective tissues by different forms of stress applications alone. These events are highly amplified with the temperature or with different kind of chemical compounds.

The chemical aspect of interfering matrix proteoglycan functions such as inhibiting Decorin for instance, does in fact produce similar outcomes as the therapeutic heat does. Fibrils / fibers crosslinks are denatured and when the inhibitor, being it temperature , ultrasound waves or chemical, is absent then reversed producing permanent elongation.

So there is the knowledge for singular extension event available and to be honest we have been able to demonstrate that knowledge working in our applications.

Longterm applications of extending of ligaments or tendons have not existed, therefor there are no academic interests.
The studies mentioned are always been dealed with single elongation and very mostly on dead tissue.

There should be, as the normal procedures to elongate shortened tendons for example are surgical with poor outcomes.
Actually we are getting substantially better results than the common physical therapy applications are producing with the ultrasound.

That been said It is still long way from successful elongation event to continuously successful series of events and penis growth therapy to be completed.
As we have seen there is universal lack of knowledge how to continuously grow fully developed perfectly healthy organ bigger.

Science does not know for sure .But if you keep digging everything they have published about mechanical stimulus on tissue growth you can find it being a key factor of any living tissue growth, and how the external and internal forces are indeed the factor keeping the shape and size of any living organ.
Mechanotransduction , mechanosensing used as a search key you can step into the science of natural growth and the limitations of it. The limitations we all can clearly see in PE.

Basic medicine lacks innovations as the focus is on treating and studying life threatening diseases both in population health and industry business profit wise.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)


Last edited by Kyrpa : 12-09-2020 at .

Originally Posted by igigi

Is seems like the most valuable research and data was produced very early in science.

More precise reply on this:
Yes, concerning singular elongation event.
Most valuable research for the whole PE carear to be completed succesfully, actually growing a big penis has been only started at 2000`s. If we wait another 20 years or so we should expect to know specifically what to do.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
More precise reply on this:
Yes, concerning singular elongation event.
Most valuable research for the whole PE carear to be completed succesfully, actually growing a big penis has been only started at 2000`s. If we wait another 20 years or so we should expect to know specifically what to do.

Since I am soon starting a protocol to restore my telomeres length, I should be younger than today in 20 years.


Period 1: 06/08/2020 BPFSL: 22cm (8.66") BPEL: 22cm (8.66") EG: 15.8cm (6.25") => 09/07/2020 BPFSL: 23.9cm (9.40")

Period 2: 05/01/2021 BPFSL: 24cm (9.44") BPEL: 22cm (8.66") EG: 15.8cm (6.25") => 07/24/2021 BPFSL: 25.4cm (10.00") BPEL: 23.5cm (9.25")

Goal: 1 Foot x 7.5 Inches (30.48cm x 19.05cm) NBPEL

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