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Gaining volume with Kyrpa

This is probably the most helpful thread I have ever read. Thanks also to Tutt, Buckfever and the other guys who compliment Kyrpa’s knowledge :-) .
Some of the questions you ask where also mine, Rocco25 :-D.

I use the lg hanger for load and then switch quickly to the phallosan, use the high red tension and measure my BPFSL with a ruler.
Maybe It can be a problem that the switch from the lg hanger to the phallosan is too long, it is approximately 1min 40 seconds.
My cycle was:
1) short warmup, slowly building up to 2kg. hang with them cold, no heat for 20 min
2) 30 min under immense IR heat, still 2kg
3) 10 min cooldown with 2kg still. [ I know, preferably I would use 2kg for 1) ,a bit more for 2) and still more for 3). I’m currently a beginner at hanging , that is why I use small weights in 2) and 3) )
Pre BPFSL: 17.5cm post BPFSL: 18.2 cm strain therefore: 4%
Is that a reason to be happy or is my measuring bad :-D. Strain seems crazy high for me since I expected to be a horrible gainer.

Besides, I’m still reading the thread, it is quite hard to get through the hundred pages haha.
But in terms of rest/decon break:
1) aim for 21-35 days. Guideline if a decon is necessary should be that the strain level decreases. Let us say below 2% or 2.2% after the workout
2) Then, take a rest for 4-6 weeks. Is that optimal or what would be suggested?
3) repeat the cycle with the same weight optimally.

Also, is it bad that I hang every day? From what I have heard from the big hanging gainers, you should definitely do that to avoid the retraction during pause days.
Should I hang 3 days on 2 off or another cycle or can I hang for the whole 21-35 days on?

I feel amazing to be able to learn so much, but it demands a lot from me cognitively :-P .


[before PE] Start BPFSL: 17.6cm start BPEL: 16.7cm

[currently on decon] latest BFPSL: 19.7cm latest BPEL: 18.5cm

Click here to see my amazing progress report (always updated!Kyrpa's methodology) ;-)

Originally Posted by Rocco25
Thanks for the description of how to determine the load-strain curve. Now the picture is much clearer. As you can see, I understand quickly, you just have to explain long enough :D
I’m having a bit of a struggle with determining the load-strain-curve, because I have a problem measuring BPFSL with my setup. Taking the device off takes time and I’m not sure if I can leave the wrap with the therapeutic band on. I may have to take Azazello’s tip to heart at least for this trial and do the test with the vac hanger. I have my thoughts on this..

What do you think is the highest acceptable time between unloading and measuring BPFSL?

This image in particular stuck with me: Stretch.PNG
Do I understand correctly that in this example the sweet spot is 2.5 .. 3 kg?

So in period 3 you were still working with STRESS when you initiated the 1st phase with 2 kg, right?

I always wondered with your latest setup how you were going to keep the strength constant, but now it has become clear to me. The force can decrease as long as the stretch remains constant.


Can´t say for sure the time between releasing and measuring. If it is constant for all the measurents that will standardize it some degree. If you apply 15sec measurement pull x min after the relase for example. You figure it out yourself.
Enough repetions for the procedure will narrow the margin of error. Patience.

Now you should understand that when seeking the optimal load you don´t need to know the absolute BPFSL at the time.
Incremental dimension suits just fine, where ever you can take this dimension on your setup.
You are looking for relative change in length so don´t bother with the absolute dimension.

For me it was easy with PMP vac, just lowering the vacuum inside the cup the coronal ridge, retroglandular sulcus pops into the scene from where I can take the most precise measurement actually available.
If you can do something similar you don´t need to build down the setup assembly.

About the graph. Yes the sweetspot lies between 2-2.5 kg for me for the phase 1.
Increasing load while cold will cause the tissue stiffen by its nature. All connective soft tissues behave like this although the placement of the knee point varies between the particular tissues.
But what I have seen there is not much variations between penises. Just wish hundred, or at least 25 of you guys taking this seriously and documenting the load strain curve. It would make this science.
At the moment I have just few of you bringing the data and there for there can´t be any universal load to give at this moment.

But what I dare to say that the extenders working at 1-4 kg are all there need to be load wise.

About the Period 3 loading.
I am sure that I had the stress relaxation sorted out already at that point. Although the setup has been evolving all along the basic principles has remind the same besides the setup used. The core is that this concept is not about the equipment at all, it is about the implementation of the principles.

It is about the non-stop study of finding the ways to implement the concept independently of the equipment used. That of course excluding the deep heat application which I am sure is only possible with ultrasound of other radiation forms such as different diathermy or RF-technology applications. Some lucky enough individuals can cope with conventional heating and IR, as they are not severely restricted because of really stiff dorsal thickening or septum.

Now when I suggested you to lock the wire just like Zaphoid does, I did something very similar.
I have mentioned few times already the use of the cushion locking the vacuum cup after the

So I have used the elastic band with the hanging scale. Sitting relaxed on the sofa the band pulling downward in angle, having no trouble to stand perfectly still 5 minutes at time what it takes to stress relaxation occur.
Once I have loaded the setup with desired load I simply lock the vac cup on rubbery cushion pad with a slot on it.
After every few minutes the reload with the same load. Making a simple stress relaxation setup out of this.

Tutt has made a extender where he can control the strain applying the length of the extender precisely allowing pure strain rate driven stretch on the penis. That should be the optimal way as the stiffening of the viscoelastic tissue is the more significant the faster the strain has been applied or the larger is the increase at once. His approach is the best in the sense of there is a optimal strain rate , the pace the strain is achieved , which yields the best elongation available.

Not having the equipment and anyways embracing the idea of the equipment independent PE efficiency, the second best is to make it happen like I have done. Although it can be optimized further by using incremental loading starting below and in slower fashion reaching the sweetspot. That would be the step for me to take when the established protocol does not give the desired strain.

I have attached the pics illustrating the hanger setup allowing stress-relaxation. I think now it should be eventually put in understandable form.
Don´t ask me where to find the cushion. Maybe it is wash mop wall mount, I really don´t know. You get what you can.

Attached Images
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START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)


Last edited by Kyrpa : 12-15-2020 at .

Originally Posted by CBateman
This is probably the most helpful thread I have ever read. Thanks also to Tutt, Buckfever and the other guys who compliment Kyrpa’s knowledge :-) .
Some of the questions you ask where also mine, Rocco25 :-D.

I use the lg hanger for load and then switch quickly to the phallosan, use the high red tension and measure my BPFSL with a ruler.
Maybe It can be a problem that the switch from the lg hanger to the phallosan is too long, it is approximately 1min 40 seconds.
My cycle was:
1) short warmup, slowly building up to 2kg. hang with them cold, no heat for 20 min
2) 30 min under immense IR heat, still 2kg
3) 10 min cooldown with 2kg still. [ I know, preferably I would use 2kg for 1) ,a bit more for 2) and still more for 3). I’m currently a beginner at hanging , that is why I use small weights in 2) and 3) )
Pre BPFSL: 17.5cm post BPFSL: 18.2 cm strain therefore: 4%
Is that a reason to be happy or is my measuring bad :-D. Strain seems crazy high for me since I expected to be a horrible gainer.

Why not measure straight out of hanger with pulling your penis gripping your glans tightly.
Best thing to do while being a beginner on hanging is to stay The beginner on hanging.
Once those guys coming professionals on hanging , they have become very good on hanging and very poor on gaining usually. As long as you are not conditioned to hang with lots of weight you should keep gaining.
If you keep repeating such a strain figures you should be gaining. And if you keep hanging daily for long enough you most definitely are not going to keep the strain coming as it is .
Now don´t change anything on the protocol but do as you were and see if you gain length.
Just make sure you can extract everything available out of that IR radiation without cooking your skin.
As for the rest days I recommend you taking them for not to become good on hanging.

Originally Posted by CBateman

Besides, I’m still reading the thread, it is quite hard to get through the hundred pages haha.
But in terms of rest/decon break:
1) aim for 21-35 days. Guideline if a decon is necessary should be that the strain level decreases. Let us say below 2% or 2.2% after the workout
2) Then, take a rest for 4-6 weeks. Is that optimal or what would be suggested?
3) repeat the cycle with the same weight optimally.

Also, is it bad that I hang every day? From what I have heard from the big hanging gainers, you should definitely do that to avoid the retraction during pause days.
Should I hang 3 days on 2 off or another cycle or can I hang for the whole 21-35 days on?

I feel amazing to be able to learn so much, but it demands a lot from me cognitively :-P .


1) You´ll see when the tide changes. Keeping bit further if everything works fine.
You can keep going sometime with the lowered strain to consolidate possible gains.
2) Going for rest the latter sounds better. If you lose some you´ll gain more later.
3) With the rest days taken and the extended break then positive. Minimal adaptation to load and similarly maximal adaptation to elongated structure.

Originally Posted by CBateman
Besides, I’m still reading the thread, it is quite hard to get through the hundred pages haha.

Yeah sounds demanding doesn´t it.
How about reading hundreds of studies once and keeping 345 of them for further understanding. Then reading all of the relevant Pudendum, Xenolith, Shiver, MX, Sparkyx, Hobby,thoughtfulgold, beardeddragon, Marimera Buckfever posts and threads just few to mention. There is plenty more of course.

First thing I ever did before knowing the content here was to went to see the top stats. Looked into the graphs and the values and then picked 5 of the best gainers and studied them all. Then followed the scientific threads wherever they lead eventually, directed by the cited studies further.

Then making a full retrospective analysis of the combined information and having detailed conclusions of what was relevant and where did they go wrong.
There is couple of favorite threads kept for you to see as well, containing what, 10000 posts and reading them all. Some of them multiple times. It still continues everyday.

Take this lightly as it is not targeted against you or anyone else, just making a point of importance of understanding.
And thankfully at present following dozen of you taking similar approaches reporting in my thread.
Some of you having the individual line of development going on your logs like Manko007, longerstretch and Igigi on the head of the development I should say. Under the surface there is lot of happening as I keep getting great info privately all the time. Right now, there is a series of tests going with clamped heating under proper setting.

I am sure something will be published out of it in a weeks or so.
I have spent thousands of hours studying already still not knowing a lot. The time spend on actual PE is a tiny fraction of the time being a student of PE. I like to keep it that way.
Keep on reading, not just my thread. Learn and make the judgements on your own.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)


Last edited by Kyrpa : 12-15-2020 at .

Originally Posted by Rocco25

With your latest setup this can work, because the system is self-contained and does not include a desk and a chair :)
My setup with the bucket still allows me relatively free movement as I can raise the bucket about 50 cm. I have made tensile tests with the rope on the clamp and this tears at 10 .. 15 kg. Even if I fall off the chair, it will not break my penis.

I wanted to mention about this earlier. This is the way of doing things I appreciate. Every DIY PE equipment should have somekind of safety release or load guard on it. Superklasse


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Tutt
No, I’ve described my treatment in fair detail a few pages back in this thread. But I have actually learned quite a bit over the past 2 weeks that will require alteration of the treatment. Basically what it comes down to is that rate of strain is MUCH more important than I originally thought. I knew that it was important because all of the research said that stretching very slowly allowed for greater elongation of tendons with much less damage. But in these studies, they usually didn’t test just how slow is best. There was one study that showed a 1%/minute strain was able to achieve incredible elongation. So recently I have tested a few different strain rates; 0.5%, 1.0%, 2%, and 12% per minute.

The short summary is that 12% was WAY too fast and caused the tissue to stiffen dramatically. This means that when we quickly load into the stretch, the collagen tissues instantly stiffen and resist the stretch. This means in order to produce the permanent strain we would need to use really high loads. Then what happens is that our body will respond and thicken/strengthen the TA to be able to handle that high load the next time.

2%/minute was much better than 12%, but there was still a dramatic (i.e. exponential) increase in the load as the strain increased. 1%/minute was significantly better than 2% and with heat I actually reached a point that the strain and load were increasing proportionately. 0.5%/minute was even better than 1%, but it wasn’t quite as much benefit, because what ends up happening is that it takes a REALLY LONG TIME, to achieve target strain at such a slow rate. Because for this to really work well, you have to start the stretch at about 0.5kg load, which for the most part will be well below the BPFSL.

For example, your relaxed length at 0.5kg load might be just 130mm while your typical BPFSL at high load might be 180mm. That means a strain rate of 0.5%/minute will be 0.9mm/minute. This means it will take 55 minutes just to progress up to the BPFSL. Then in my experience I’m able to stretch at that rate for another 10-15 minutes before I exceed 4kg load. But by then I’ve had my penis strained for too long and heated for too long, and my tailbone is hurting from sitting stationary for too long. So for me, it makes more sense to perform a warmup stretch at 1%/min and then do another 1%/min stretch on the second set just until I get close to the BPFSL and then slow down to 0.5%/min.

In the end, there are so far four elements to the treatment that are absolutely key.
1- Heat the internal tissues to at least 38-39C throughout all stretching. Then make sure that for the stretch close to and beyond the BPFSL, the internal tissues are heating to 41-42C for at least several minutes.
2- Try not to exceed a 1%/minute strain rate.
3- The ultimate strain must go at least 2.5-3.0% past the BPFSL to result in permanent elongation. And with a slow enough strain rate it can go well past that.
4- Once we reach the longest stretch, we need to lock the length and remove the heat to allow the tissues to cool in a fully extended state.

If there is a fifth key element, it will likely be to create a cyclic strain protocol, but so far it seems that the strain rate is more important than the cycles. And if we are limiting the treatment time to around 60 minutes, then multiple cycles aren’t really possible.

This is one thing I have definitely noticed in my own experiments

the penis is like those “chinese finger traps”

if you pull fast it immediately stiffens

but if you go veeeerrrrryyyyy slllooowwwwwwlllllyyyyy it will sort of “breathe” and stretch a lot

its almost like a real shy woman you have to take your time and court and gently flirt and woo and affectionately gently persuade to slowly come with you to bed…

i can actually visibly see when the penis relaxes and allows me to stretch it a little bit further

Thanks for your very detailed reply.

This is way more than I could ever expect to receive as guidance.

It’s very interesting to get an idea of how much time and effort you put into this and we all as a collective can only applaud you for that and help to the best of our abilities.

I tried to replicate the load strain curve but wasn’t able to get accurate BPFSL measurements cold and after only 10 mins each. I will try to refine the procedure and maybe I can create an additional data point.

I will also continue my self-study, maybe I find something of interest.

All the best


[before PE] Start BPFSL: 17.6cm start BPEL: 16.7cm

[currently on decon] latest BFPSL: 19.7cm latest BPEL: 18.5cm

Click here to see my amazing progress report (always updated!Kyrpa's methodology) ;-)

Originally Posted by BiggerPenis73
This is one thing I have definitely noticed in my own experiments

the penis is like those “chinese finger traps”

if you pull fast it immediately stiffens

but if you go veeeerrrrryyyyy slllooowwwwwwlllllyyyyy it will sort of “breathe” and stretch a lot

its almost like a real shy woman you have to take your time and court and gently flirt and woo and affectionately gently persuade to slowly come with you to bed…

i can actually visibly see when the penis relaxes and allows me to stretch it a little bit further

Excactly


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by CBateman

Besides, I’m still reading the thread, it is quite hard to get through the hundred pages haha.

Read and understand just 3 pages per day. That is 90 pages in 30 days, almost the whole thread. It is well worth it.


Period 1: 06/08/2020 BPFSL: 22cm (8.66") BPEL: 22cm (8.66") EG: 15.8cm (6.25") => 09/07/2020 BPFSL: 23.9cm (9.40")

Period 2: 05/01/2021 BPFSL: 24cm (9.44") BPEL: 22cm (8.66") EG: 15.8cm (6.25") => 07/24/2021 BPFSL: 25.4cm (10.00") BPEL: 23.5cm (9.25")

Goal: 1 Foot x 7.5 Inches (30.48cm x 19.05cm) NBPEL

Originally Posted by BiggerPenis73
This is one thing I have definitely noticed in my own experiments

the penis is like those “chinese finger traps”

if you pull fast it immediately stiffens

but if you go veeeerrrrryyyyy slllooowwwwwwlllllyyyyy it will sort of “breathe” and stretch a lot

its almost like a real shy woman you have to take your time and court and gently flirt and woo and affectionately gently persuade to slowly come with you to bed…

i can actually visibly see when the penis relaxes and allows me to stretch it a little bit further

I learned that sometime ago and NEVER tugged my dick again. Specially after I gained 2cm of septum, I will never risk toughening it again. I grab the glans, and start pulling VERY slow. The complete pull to full BPFSL should take no less than 10 seconds. By doing it that way, it looks like a telescope is coming out of the groin. If you tug violently, it stiffens.

Even slowly, sometimes is not fully relax to come out smoothly. Is like a snail. Sometimes while stretching it I feel little tug half way, I stop, go back a couple cm, then keep pulling again slowly and without fighting it.

I believe because using this technique is that sometimes I get extra 3-4mm of BPFSL.


Period 1: 06/08/2020 BPFSL: 22cm (8.66") BPEL: 22cm (8.66") EG: 15.8cm (6.25") => 09/07/2020 BPFSL: 23.9cm (9.40")

Period 2: 05/01/2021 BPFSL: 24cm (9.44") BPEL: 22cm (8.66") EG: 15.8cm (6.25") => 07/24/2021 BPFSL: 25.4cm (10.00") BPEL: 23.5cm (9.25")

Goal: 1 Foot x 7.5 Inches (30.48cm x 19.05cm) NBPEL

Thank you for your comments, you bring more and more light into my darkness. And believe me, there it is really dark :)

I can imagine that the 100+x pages of reading are peanuts compared to what you have read. Where do you get this time from? Unbelievable. Is it the white nights in Finland that don’t let you sleep? :) Whatever it is, you definitely have my full respect.

_______________

I definitely messed up stress relaxation in my first period. Maybe I should call it the zero period. It was my training period, so to speak. Instead of stress relaxing I kept increasing the strain.

My main problem is with the loose skin on my thing. I have tried a few things and clamping was the least bad. When I see that some people can clamp with silisleeves, I am surprised. For me it just slips through because the skin is so loose.
I could build much better setups if it wasn’t for this problem. I get that it’s not just the setup that matters, also the principles being done cleanly, but the best mechanic can’t do anything without proper tools.

Depending on the shape of the day and the fit of the clamp, it may slip a bit. And again, it’s harder to work with strain when the position changes. I can see: I’ve been given homework..

I want to come back to your latest setup: 20201127_220043.jpg
This is about the blue part (breakaway coaster clamp). Do I understand it correctly that you can widen the ring so far that the glans fits through, then you twist the nut below to close and the whole thing holds for an hour?

An important question: Since I have apparently not yet understood some things despite reading, I ask again to be on the safe side: In phase 3 (US) there is a constant load (e.g. 3.5 kg) and not a constant stretch, right?

_______________

Something else about the phantom. You wrote the following about it:

Quote
The lower the Z then easier the sound wave travels through if you intend to apply ultrasound through it. . We don’t know the actual Z of the penis but the average is about 1.6 kgm-2s-1x10^6 for soft tissues.

The Z for the DIY is then 1.29 kgm-2s-1x10^2 and for compound #1 , 1.37 kgm-2s-1x10^6. There is no big difference so I would choose some of the soft one easy to mold. I have the DIY package which came as a roughly molded block having air bubbles inside. Nevertheless it works still just fine as I cut a piece of the block and use it as it is.

When googling for the properties of silicone, I can calculate an impedance of 0.73 .. 1.1 *10^6 kg/(m^2*s) (from the values p = 760 .. 1070 kg/m^3, v = 958 .. 1028 m/s). This is at least not too far from the values for soft tissue you have given (1.6 *10^6 kg/(m^2*s)). If we adapt the shape to the dorsal side to some extent and fill the remaining gap with gel, this should also work and, above all, be long-lasting.

You have already posted a study on this. Another study is available here (unfortunately for you, fortunately for me in German): https://www.ndt.net/article/dgzfp2017/papers/p48.pdf

I conclude from this that silicone could also be suitable for us. Whether it is better or worse than the gel pads I suggested.. Who knows?
With silicone we would have found a permanent solution

Quote
Superklasse


Thank you, sir :D

Originally Posted by Rocco25
Thank you for your comments, you bring more and more light into my darkness. And believe me, there it is really dark :)
A)
I can imagine that the 100+x pages of reading are peanuts compared to what you have read. Where do you get this time from? Unbelievable. Is it the white nights in Finland that don’t let you sleep? :) Whatever it is, you definitely have my full respect.

_______________
B)
I definitely messed up stress relaxation in my first period. Maybe I should call it the zero period. It was my training period, so to speak. Instead of stress relaxing I kept increasing the strain.

My main problem is with the loose skin on my thing. I have tried a few things and clamping was the least bad. When I see that some people can clamp with silisleeves, I am surprised. For me it just slips through because the skin is so loose.
I could build much better setups if it wasn’t for this problem. I get that it’s not just the setup that matters, also the principles being done cleanly, but the best mechanic can’t do anything without proper tools.

Depending on the shape of the day and the fit of the clamp, it may slip a bit. And again, it’s harder to work with strain when the position changes. I can see: I’ve been given homework..

I want to come back to your latest setup: 20201127_220043.jpg
This is about the blue part (breakaway coaster clamp). Do I understand it correctly that you can widen the ring so far that the glans fits through, then you twist the nut below to close and the whole thing holds for an hour?

An important question: Since I have apparently not yet understood some things despite reading, I ask again to be on the safe side: In phase 3 (US) there is a constant load (e.g. 3.5 kg) and not a constant stretch, right?

_______________
C)
Something else about the phantom. You wrote the following about it:

When googling for the properties of silicone, I can calculate an impedance of 0.73 .. 1.1 *10^6 kg/(m^2*s) (from the values p = 760 .. 1070 kg/m^3, v = 958 .. 1028 m/s). This is at least not too far from the values for soft tissue you have given (1.6 *10^6 kg/(m^2*s)). If we adapt the shape to the dorsal side to some extent and fill the remaining gap with gel, this should also work and, above all, be long-lasting.

You have already posted a study on this. Another study is available here (unfortunately for you, fortunately for me in German): https://www.ndt.net/article/dgzfp2017/papers/p48.pdf

I conclude from this that silicone could also be suitable for us. Whether it is better or worse than the gel pads I suggested.. Who knows?
With silicone we would have found a permanent solution

Thank you, sir :D


A) Extreme conditions, extreme measures.
That is true about the summertime, sun does not go down much. Darkest hours are now as the sun barely rises, permanent snow yet to arrive to enlighten us :)
Look, I am on a mission here with an expiration day. Let’s say I have a tendency to find a problem of come to terms with and then move on to next one.

B) Correct. As you can see it has a rubber cockring inside. Which has a groove on it the noose to fit in firmly. It does hold for hour with minimal slippage. The slippage could be avoided totally if special ring would be mold out of silicon rubber.

I refer phase 2 to be the heated round and I have used load range 3.0- 3.5 kg.
The magnitude here has relevancy more than the precise load.

It is basically constant load producing creep. But since the heat is implemented the stress relaxation properties of the tissue are amplified so there is elongation coming either way, we don´t know for sure by which mechanism or both.

C) You should take notes from this
Heating problems with extender users
You can actually calculate the reflective compound of the impedance difference at material boundaries.

Comparing to air which produce reflection large enough (99.9% ) to interfere the transducer and inducing potentially unhealthy standing waves, either silicon or gelatin as a phantom medium should be just fine(depending on the silicon type).

Gelatine back reflection 1% . Silicons 3.4- 15%


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

To be added:

B) As for the slippage. I am uncircumcised with a very loose foreskin exposing the glans completely , easily to pulled away to expose the retroglandular sulcus.
The ring should be fitted against the corona then.

C) Using the pad as a standoff between the shaft and the transducer the superiority of the gelatin makes more difference I suppose based on same calculations


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

A)
Sounds gloomy, the whole thing. I learned that in Finland there is a technical word for what to do in such weather: Kalsarikännit :D
You can’t pull the wiener all the time, can you?

B)
That sounds interesting. I will have a closer look at the setup. Current I do not stretch, so I can not test anything. Also, as of today there is a lockdown in Germany, stores are closed, and DHL won’t deliver promptly during the Christmas season either.
If I can find another way to initiate the force, then that opens some doors for me. Then I can build a setup without a clamp.

C)
I already read the thread you linked too, but didn’t think of this post again. Of course, that piqued my curiosity and I think I came across a serious alternative to gelatin. For this, I found a PhD thesis on the topic “Development and evaluation of a veterinary Doppler phantom for use in teaching and training”. This is about half a year old and can be found here: https://edoc.ub.uni-muenchen.de/266…elsen_Alina.pdf.
My luck, your bad luck: The paper is in German.
I did not read this paper completely and tried to extract the necessary for me.
Addition-curing silicone rubbers are a good alternative to gelatin to create US phantoms. What is interesting about this work is that the author determined the sonic velocities of the respective materials. In her case, she used products from the company Smooth-On. This means that if someone in the USA wants to replicate this, you can get the material quite easily.
The work also includes additives such as micro glass beads to improve penetration. However, I would refrain from doing that in my project.
The product DragonSkin with 20 Shore A looks very interesting in my opinion, there the reflection is mathematically less than 1% and can easily compete with gelatin. In the PhD thesis, the Ecoflex 00-20 material (also from Smooth-On) was preferred because the addition of 2% micro glass beads (50 µm) raises the hardness somewhat. Since the EcoFlex is softer than the DragonSkin, this was used. Hardness is critical for coupling, the harder the worse. Both DragonSkin and Ecoflex are skin-friendly.
For the German market, I found another product called Wagnersil 22 NF, which is cheaper than the one from smooth-on. Since I don’t know the sound velocities here, I made three assumptions to determine the reflection. In the PhD thesis, the measurements of the sound velocities for the addition-curing silicone rubbers are around 1000 .. 1400 m/s.
Even if the Wagner silicone has a sound velocity of 1000 m/s, the reflection is at most 4 %. At 1400 m/s it is almost zero. According to the manufacturer, this product is also skin friendly.

I haven’t decided yet whether to use Wagnersil or DragonSkin. But the resilient numbers are in favor of DragonSkin. This stuff can withstand over 200 °C, so IR is not a problem either. And when the pad is (hopefully) soon too small, make a new one :D :D :D

I have attached the calculations of the reflection including my assumptions. For me the silicone makes more sense than gelatin.

PS.: I also added the calculations of the assumptions we made before (Silicone best / worst)

Attached Images

One issue I don’t know the answer to just came to my mind. I can’t remember if it’s ever been covered here, so I’ll just ask:

Does the transition from phase 1 (stress relaxation) to phase 2 (US) have to be seamless, meaning no unloading? Or does it matter if the thing would be without load for, say, a minute before the 3+x kg is applied with US?

Originally Posted by Rocco25
One issue I don’t know the answer to just came to my mind. I can’t remember if it’s ever been covered here, so I’ll just ask:

Does the transition from phase 1 (stress relaxation) to phase 2 (US) have to be seamless, meaning no unloading? Or does it matter if the thing would be without load for, say, a minute before the 3+x kg is applied with US?

No it don´t Short pauses may even be better. It cuts the singular stretch duration to 30 minutes. Single stretch lasting more than half an hour can start to develop apoptosis which we do not desire. And the pause between makes the nature of the workout cyclical which is positive with visco elastic tissue.
It has been seen in studies all the time second stretch producing more strain if repeated similarly. With this protocol there is two 30 minutes lasting stretching sets.
That is because 20 minutes heating set is combined with the 10 minute cooldown. These should be without a break between.

I looked on those silicon materials and they look good. I didn´t look into molding temperatures though.
The synthetic gelatin is molded as low as 160 C which makes it easy to work at home kitchen.

But the downer is that we can´t make robust rings or sleeves out of it. Can those best silicon materials you picked cope with tensile stresses such as cockring or clamping sleeve should bear?


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

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