Gaining volume with Kyrpa

Congratulations Rocco for approaching this with intelligence. An individual who takes the time to go through the thread and read almost everything, shows normal IQ. That is the way to approach the topic.

- Did you ever try applying this protocol with your penis over the leg as the original Kyrpa’s protocol?
- If you have a 1Mhz device, it must be applied on the ventral side in order to heat the dorsal side which is where the septum becomes noticeable under tension.

It seems to me your lack of results are due to a combination of not proper equipment, although you corrected that issue later, plus not heating the dorsal side properly, plus the backing medium in which the sound waves are being lost.

You should give it a try by resting your penis over your leg, twisted of course to expose the ventral side up, apply plenty of gel and try the protocol. That was my initial approach. Kyrpa proved beyond any doubt the efficacy of this technology, so I simply mirrored what he did and from there it has been little tweaks and experiments here and there. But Kyrpa’s original protocol is “the basics”

He will have for sure the best advise for you.

Hello igigi et al.,

Thank you very much for your answer. There was the term RTFM before and I think it makes sense.

There are several reasons why I can’t or won’t follow Krypa’s protocol 1:1:
1) I remember your discussion with Tutt regarding body fat on the thigh and fat burning by US. Since I am of the opinion that you can destroy fat cells with US, I am not convinced about OTL. Unlike you, I have more than 4% body fat :)
By the way, I have a fat pad of about 4.5 cm and here I want to use US specifically to grill it.
2) As mentioned in the previous post, I initiate the force using Hanger. In simple terms, I clamp my member between two pieces of wood. On the lower side these slats are connected with a hinge, on the upper side a screw with wing nut that creates the clamp. I wrap the glans with therapy tape beforehand (https://www.dm. de/mivolis-kine … 8172311925.html ).
My hanger is too big to practice OTL, it is geometrically impossible.

I scrolled through the thread but could not find the picture I was looking for. Krypa once posted a scheme where a fake-body was on the opposite side of the transducer. That was to replace the thigh, which was the motivation for me to try these gel pads. As I understand it, the point is not to create a standing wave, which is what the thigh is for.

I noticed that the skin on the opposite side from the US tends to burn. With the gel pad (of course I use US gel between pad and penis) this does not happen. So it seems to have an effect.

When I switched to 1.6 W/cm^2, I had a few more sessions w/ strain, then it went to zero. I was supposed to do 10 weeks, but had to stop after about 8 weeks. I’m surprised that the strain is going to zero, even though I’m still a long way from the gains that are being made here. Krypa once wrote that not only limits the strain but also the duration of application. Perhaps I have reached that point.

Before US I did decon for 2 weeks. Right at the first session my glans burst (vacuum) and I had to take another 2 weeks break. In the time before that I did prolonged stretching (also with a self-made clamping device). Maybe the decon of 4 weeks total was just too short.

I thought about posting here for a long time, but couldn’t find a clear answer for me despite reading.

Enjoy your Sunday!
Kippis & thanks

Zum Wohl Rocco,

Thank you for acknowledging this work of mine. For me it is a great pleasure guys like you studying it taking it to their own hands to bring some further information to develop these things.

Seems like you have earned some valuable lessons already about the application.
The performance class of the equipment being one and the hanger setup made on your own tells me something about the mentality I believe we share.
You had some gains at least so you are on your way already, so I am confident you will make it happen with better rate in the future.
The fact that the strain percentage starting to descend at approximately two months point does not come as a surprise, as the trend has been recognized in several cases already.

That being the case with you despite even not having tremendous strain percentages, gives us more signs it being the very nature of the tissue we are elongating, not necessary the consequence of the method in use. That to me come as a further evidence of the periodization being justified not to adapt the tissue resisting further elongation.

If sticking with the setup, your results should be amplified by having the process perfectly tuned.

I will chew some aspects in general before answering the actual questions.
You have a perfect opportunity to bring the hanger setup another step further.
It is easily tunable to stress relaxation setup with using simple method to lock the strain after the load has been applied.
You can simply use any ordinary bar clamp to fix the hanger cable to the edge of the desk after the load has been applied and the shaft is tensioned.
Then release and reload it at least once for each load increment you make.
Zaphod1 showing the way in my log. He has made it happen with IR only with some decent results using the protocol.
IMG_4838.JPG

I am not recommending anyone to blindly increase loading because it could be unnecessary and counterproductive in some cases.
It is rather easy to make sure if the load you are using for the first phase is either too low or too much. Find the threshold load and ride on the sweetspot.
I have been encouraging to make any decisions by testing the necessary loading, not copying it from anyone else.

Make a simple test by increasing the load in 0.5 kg steps every 10 minutes and measure the BPFSL. You can find that the strain increases to certain load and any further increase won’t be giving any additional elongation.
You can find the threshold loads for the maximal strain available within the realms of the particular method. Several guys already taken this test and in general the average being that 2.5 kg being the maximal load giving the best strain in the timeline of 30 minutes to 60 minutes. If the threshold load is lower, then even better.
After finding the best load for you, optimizing the hang/ stretch with the stress relaxation method you are on your way to best available strain possible in the given time.
Applying the US from the ventral site you can also avoid the IR causing the safety turn off at least some degree.

“A. Gel pad ventral, US (1 MHz, 1.6 W/cm^2) dorsal
B. Gel pad dorsal, US (1 MHz, 1.6 W/cm^2) ventral”

Depending if you use the gel pad as a stand off adjusting the penetration dept or as ultrasound phantom at opposite site to apply side.
In your setup it is crucial to use the pad on the dorsal site when applying the transducer at the ventral side.
This will eliminate unwanted reflections from the wavefront reaching the skin-to- air boundary.
The pad allows the wave front travel through the shaft making the heating substantially better.
The difference is huge. Like igigí already suggested using the method I have made all my gains as well is he recently, the shaft laying on the top of the thigh, OTL hanging the problem is already solved.
I used ultrasound disposal pads and latter the medical gelatin with the extender setup.
Placing the pads on dorsal site, applying the US below the shaft, at the ventral side the heating experience was almost as good. I will run some temperature monitoring tests later with the setup to make sure.

Additionally using the pad between the shaft and the transducer as a standoff, the penetration depth can be adjusted. Few percent of the intensity is lost in the pad though.
Tutt used it like that and he had some indications the heating being better tolerated and the effectivity being just fine.

“C. I noticed that the Delta machine is now available in Germany. If I am willing to invest another 210 €, I could use variant A with 3 MHz and 2 W/cm^2.”

I am not keeping a track of all the equipment used or available. Some have used Delta machines without complaints but at least one did have very poor results and purchased another machine.

The problem with all Indian and Chinese machines is that the suppliers don´t provide the necessary information every decent manufacturer should have.
The BNR, beam non-uniformity ratio, telling all you need to know about the transducer quality.

I would ask the sellers and if they cannot give it then no purchase either. If the value is 5 or 5:1 or smaller ratio then the machine is at least decent or good.
Using the same transducer for 1 MHz and 3 MHz the BNR for the latter is usually substantially worse.

Other thing is the intensity if the maximal intensity claimed is for the pulsed mode (duty < 100%) or continuous (DUTY cycle 100%).
There have been many models in the market said to have 3.0 w/cm^2 intensity, but the reality is that it is for lower duty cycle percentages, for continuous form of 100% duty only 2.0 w/cm^2.

Great that you posted here. You are halfway there already and making the setup work would benefit every hanger and especially extender user.

This is the picture you were talking about. Applying the ultrasound penetrating deeper than the shaft allows the wavefront is reflected back against the transducer. Making the heating ineffective and unpredictable hard to manage.

Using extender as a stretching tool in my latest run with the ultrasound gelpads and at the end with the phantom gelatin pad opposing the applicator was fine.
Like I said before it felt good and I was able to have decent strain. But I have no data for it like I have for the established protocol Igigi run with grand results.
I think I am obligated to run another laboratory setup to have the confirmation.

reflections.JPG

Here is some words about the thing
Heating problems with extender users

Prost !

The gel packing you use still has some limitations. The cover of the pack has less acoustic reflection than the skin exposed to open air, but the reflection is still there. Only part of the wavefront traveling through the tissue freely. Also the attenuation of intensity is greater when the palstic made gel pad is used instead of ultrasound gel pads or medical grade gelatin.

As a secondary heating element it works perfectly.

Yes that can be done with ultrasound , but if it will happen with the intensity available after attenuated in the shaft before reaching the fat pad is another thing.

After using it one and half years like that absolutely no fat has seemingly have been destroyed on the top of my quads. None.

BUT I tried to combine the studies concerning the thing on my lower abdomen fat pad which is thick I can tell.
I used two transducer focused on the same spot having in theory 3.2 w/cm^2 of focal ultrasound . Keeping it in a spot to the point of feeling pain before moving on.
I used it for the approximately 8x 20 cm area for 30 minutes a time.
Before the vigorous heating I had used ESWT to prepare the area banging it with as much as joules I could possibly tolerate for 5000 shocks.

I was able to replicate the results they had with pig abdomen fat and similarly in rat studies where they had 0.5 mm reduction on skinfold caliper measurements per treatment .

Plausible yes. With lots of dedicated and extremely painful efforts to do so . Happening as a collateral damage by chance absolutely no way.

You may want to try water filled hanger, as I picked up from capernucus1. Roll up silicone sleeve over the cap. Under water push you penis head inside the cap, roll the sleeve over it. There is even no need for a pump. Make sure there is no air trapped inside. Now you can take it out of the water and use for hanging. This way there seems to be very little vacuum inside the cap while not under load, so if you make breaks in hanging by unloading for a short time it may prevent blisters.

The only problem I have with the silicone sleeve is occasional painful pinching at the interface when using US.

BTW I took a break from US and am experimenting with clamping and stretching using aforementioned vac hanger.

Wow, that’s what I call response! Thank you for your answers.

As already written, I have read everything but certainly not captured everything. English is not my native language and some things I have forgotten in the course of time. I have been dealing with the topic for several months and read partly for the second time and am always surprised what I do not yet know.

Do I understand correctly that stress relaxation is about holding the strain and not the load? I would still like to work with load, simply for practical reasons. When I clamp the rope, it only works if the distance from the root of the penis to the clamping point remains absolutely constant, so the strain stays the same. I can’t get that to work with my setup. Even the slightest movement on the chair would change the strain. Since I am not a Buddhist monk on the verge of reaching Nirvana, it is not feasible for me to sit there for 30 minutes without moving.
With your latest setup this can work, because the system is self-contained and does not include a desk and a chair :)
My setup with the bucket still allows me relatively free movement as I can raise the bucket about 50 cm. I have made tensile tests with the rope on the clamp and this tears at 10 .. 15 kg. Even if I fall off the chair, it will not break my penis.

Thanks for the tip on finding the sweet spot. I will tackle this at the end of January. Do I understand correctly that I need to determine BPFSL with the respective weight? BPFSL means under full load, so that would be BPFSL* :)

What about the load under US? There are values circulating here around 3.5 kg. Is there anything to optimize here?

Your recommendation is clearly US ventral, pad dorsal. Then I now know in which direction I have to optimize.
The current implementation is not perfect, because I need the other hand to hold the gel pad. There is still room for improvement here.

I only picked up the idea of the delta machine because it was discussed here. It is not without controversy, and there have already been unpleasant discussions about it.
My thought was to fire dorsal incl. IR and 3 Mhz would have been better. But let’s discard this idea for now. I’ll try to optimize my setup, then we’ll look at the 2nd period.

It is my pleasure when I can contribute to the improvement of PE with US.
Therefore I like to share pictures of my equipment with you! Let’s see how it will look in the end.

On the one pic you can see the DIY-Bib and my BPFSL gauge. For this I sawed off an old brush and sanded it round accordingly, so it won’t hurt the pubic bone. As soon as I have reached 27 cm BPFSL I have to build a new one :D
In the other picture you can see the course of the rope below the desk. It was important to me that I can comfortably put stones in the bucket to increase the load.

I do not want to usurp your protocol and hope that it serves the general community.

Thanks for the picture, that was exactly what I meant. I just didn’t remember it was posted in your other thread.

The three other post from Krypa and Azazello I try to answer here. Thanks for that.

Pad:
I still have to come up with something with the gel pad. That the plastic cover has an influence, I have not considered. In my mind, the influence was negligible because there is gel on both sides. Maybe I have to make a pad with gelatin like you did. This I can better adapt to the shape of my penis and then may not have to hold it all the time.
I would radiate with IR on the gel pad on the dorsal side. Do you think the gelatin will hold up?

Fat burning
Since I just continue to stay with 3.5 kg to cool down, I can use the time to grill the fat pad with US. That is in 10 min an area of approx. 5 x 10 cm. Here, especially the frequency of use will help and it is not a major time investment.
My hanger has the disadvantage that it becomes uncomfortable to wear it at the end of the session. Finally, you clamp off the blood and after an hour it is really enough. Then when I apply US on the fat pad, at least I have a little distraction and I no longer count the seconds :)
The clamp is definitely not the silver bullet, but the only thing that works for me at the moment. I have very loose skin on my penis so it’s not easy for me to find a workable solution.

Water in the hanger
Basically, the idea does not sound bad. Could you determine an advantage under constant load? The advantage of the absence of vacuum under no load does not come into play with the protocol, since I am constantly under load.
In principle, I would prefer to work with a hanger, since I can then work the entire shaft with US. However, after my experiences so far, I don’t dare yet to do it again. These blisters were really bad. With IR, the tendency to blisters should be much greater.

Did you use the H setting for the fat pad?

Organic gelatin wont stand. I am not sure if the Humimic syntehetic medical gelatin will stand the IR heat and radiation in longterm. They surely can tell if asked.
While I have used it pressing agains the shaft with my fingers while using US it has felt warm with no signs of deterioration.

Remember NOT to aim the wavefront against the abdomen wall when cooking the abdomen fat pad.
Instead you need to grab a thick fatty skinfold and press it against the transducer , wavefront directed parallell the abdomen wall not against.

Yes. With two transducers focused to double the intensity.

Here is some info about the application. I am sure following the cited studies you will learn more about it.
The Effects of Low-Intensity Ultrasound on Fat Reduction of Rat Model

Here is some info about the combination of ESWT and heat for fat reduction. They were using RF -technique inducing cell apoptosis,
which was not detected in ultrasound studies. Ultrasound was rather " emptying" the fat deposits so to speak.
The combination of extracorporeal shock wave therapy and noncontact apoptosis-inducing radiofrequency achieved significant waist circumferential reduction: a pilot study - PMC

It is a long road as there will be no over night results but with a time and patience and some tolerance for pain it can reduce the problematic fat pad.
I am starting new campaign targeting just the triangular area above the penis . Lets see if there will be any visual engorgement coming.

Like I mentioned already be careful not to aim wavefront against the abdomen wall and therefor potentially affecting your intestines.

Tutt has an extended knowledge on this area , and I believe he has posted about the possibilities publicly as well.

Determining the load - strain curve.
You take normal the BPFSL measurement after each loading interval using the usual established pulling force you use for the BPFSL.
Then get back to the process with another load increment. It can be speculated if the strong pulls between will effect the process but after lot of takes I can tell, insIde the marging of error we operate it won´t . If you are able to do it without getting out of the setup that would be great.

The load under the heat.
Determining the load strain curve you can find that weight too. Using loads under 2.5kg we are operating on the end of the toe region of the load strain curve.
With 3.5 kg we are clearly on the region where the tissue stiffens radically. It is the transitional region where the load strain curve incline steeply entering eventually to the elastic range of constant elastic modulus.

So speaking in laymans terms, the phase 1 load has to be light enough to produce strain and heavy enough to produce maximal strain in given time still not indicating any signs of tissue stiffening.
The phase 2 the load should be heavy enough AND the lowest possible still indicating the tissue stiffening AND more importantly producing further strain.
Riding on the sweetspot all along.

For the first two phases the main strategy is to produce as much as strain as possible for the give time.
Strain is crucial to adapt the ECM of the connective tissue to the elongation and not for the applied external stress via loading.
Both forms of adapation induce collagen synthesis but the difference being the STRAIN primarily producing elongation and the STRESS producing strenghtening of the tissue due growth.

The phase 3, load has to be high enough to combat the cooling induced contraction of the tissue.
It remains speculation if the contraction induced stress is percentually relative to the initial load or does it really climb to a certain absolute figure.

Setting the extender to 4.5 kg for fixed length and letting the thing cool at this length, using the load cell as a indicator the load has actually increased up to 5.8 kg.
Then dropping down significantly to be increased again but this time settling lower than the previous peak. The tissue reacts like this load fluctuating like sine wave still following the decending trend until it has cooled down.

Thanks for the description of how to determine the load-strain curve. Now the picture is much clearer. As you can see, I understand quickly, you just have to explain long enough :D
I’m having a bit of a struggle with determining the load-strain-curve, because I have a problem measuring BPFSL with my setup. Taking the device off takes time and I’m not sure if I can leave the wrap with the therapeutic band on. I may have to take Azazello’s tip to heart at least for this trial and do the test with the vac hanger. I have my thoughts on this..

What do you think is the highest acceptable time between unloading and measuring BPFSL?

This image in particular stuck with me: Stretch.PNG
Do I understand correctly that in this example the sweet spot is 2.5 .. 3 kg?

So in period 3 you were still working with STRESS when you initiated the 1st phase with 2 kg, right?

I always wondered with your latest setup how you were going to keep the strength constant, but now it has become clear to me. The force can decrease as long as the stretch remains constant.