Gaining volume with Kyrpa

Also, if any of you has ever wondered about non-invasive lipo like coolsculpting, Sculptsure (laser), RF (velashape, trusculpt, etc), or others. I can tell you there is one company that is killing all the others. Nobody is even close to Cutera Trusculpt. But the problem is that it has to be done correctly and enough times, so it isn’t cheap.

Having a unit at my disposal for as many treatments as I want, and having tested all the others, there is no comparison for effectiveness of fat reduction and ergonomics. But what they don’t know is that it works even better if you follow the treatment with high energy radial ESWT.

Anyway, back to the PE discussion.

Hey Kyrpa, I had two questions for you. First off been a while since I came back to TP and just got caught up with the thread. Hope you are well and life is good. Relieved to hear you recovered from the illness.

1. My BPFSL is about 20.32 cm and my BPEL is about 19 cm. I’m currently in the gap between my full length session and my rest period where I’m maintaining/solidifying the gains and doing some girth work. I guess you’d say I’m in day 45-70 or so. The way I’ve been doing it is 30-45 days length (until BPFSL2 gain stops and continuing until BPFSL1 catches up and plateaus), with about 30 days of length solidification and girth work before I take my minimum 30 days of complete rest.

Does this look right?

2) What do you think about introducing clamping into the mid-period girth routine (or anywhere else in the process)? I believe I respond quite favorably to squeezes and clamping.

For my mid-period girth routine, I’ve been doing this:

A. Conditioning stretch 30-45 min
B. 20 min side to side bundled US heated stretches (temperature tested, I hit 39-40 c between leg and penis)
C. Heated length restricted pump cycles for 20-25 minutes (15s up, hold 30s, down 15s)

And it’s been working well so far. I rapidly regained most of the 0.6cm of MSEG that I had lost over the last break, but when I introduced a 5 minute manual clamping set before the pumping I saw a little more gain (maybe 0.1-0.2) and a rapid solidification of my previous 0.6cm MSEG. I’m interested in lowering the amount of pumping cycles but sandwiching it with a 5 minute heated clamp set before and after.

I’ve read about pumping gains being temporary unless you do it for a long time in order to solidify them, but the way I see this routine working is 1) the bundled stretches “loosen” the structure and heat it thoroughly, 2) the initial clamping forces intense expansion, 3) the high intensity heated length restricted pumping cycles push that expansion a little further in a different way (external forced vs internal forced), and 4) the final clamping set solidifies the expansion from the pumping with internal forces once again. I don’t know if this is too much, but I only do 2 days on, 2-3 days off, and so far I feel good and gains are great, however I don’t want to hinder myself from reaching my length gains of 21.5-22 cm BPEL in the near future.

Would you care to share your thoughts? They’d be appreciated.

Hey Tutt,

That is unfortunately my experience as well. The ones that work don’t come close to heating the tissues at all, not even the surface, and like you say, I doubt they are even capable to meeting the advertised benefits. Thankfully, with duel US transducers, hitting approx 40 degrees C between my dick and leg has been quite smooth. I imagine if that’s the temperature in that space, the internal temperature of my dick must be significantly higher and well in the range of 39-45 c.

Fascinating. Thank you for sharing. I’m not at the point where I can invest in these types of expensive machines just for the fun of it, but I’m getting there. :P

@TimeIt. I’m confident you are correct about reaching sufficient internal temps with two transducers. My only caution would be the assumption that internal temp is higher than the temp at the thigh interface. 1mHz frequency penetrates tissue so well that it’s not uncommon for the highest temp to be found at the interface.

I suppose the saying “more money than sense” applies in many cases. I justified the purchases because I’m researching some concepts that allow for cross application of the machines. Maybe I still would’ve bought them just for PE. Who knows? Money’s just money in the same way that a big penis isn’t all that important. Enjoy life, money and a big penis are just gravy.

Hi Tutt, thank you so much for sharing your experiments, I have been wondering about your process. With all this devices, were you able at least to develop a protocol for yourself with RF and provide results in phallic volume?

And that lipo thing sounds tempting. Perhaps you could offer fat burning sessions to make up for the investment lol

I’ve actually taken an extended break other than temperature tests and installing an electric motor and foot switch onto my extender. I’ve gotten everything figured out now that I’m pretty certain what my optimal protocol is. With regard to RF, there is no functional reason it would be different than US given sufficient heat. It is just easier to apply. I don’t have to constantly reapply gel and keep the handpiece sliding around. Also the waves aren’t prone to traveling fully through the shaft as with US.

The 1mHz handpiece is quite convenient especially with the electric motor switch. I set the strain rate at 0.5% per minute which frees up both hands and provides what I believe to be the optimal strain rate. The handpiece operates in a “stamp” mode meaning it is simply held in place until the target tissue temp is reach. The device monitors the temp itself so I don’t need to guess. Then the handpiece is positioned at a different location and heat applied. I’ve been incredibly busy lately, so I’ll need to figure out when to schedule the sessions. I’m very confident at this point that with this exceptionally slow strain up to the load limit with precisely controlled heat will produce maximal strain per session.

Brilliant!!

Kyrpä: I understand you gained your length mainly by penismaster pro vacuum device and manual stretches with aid of ultrasound, right?

How did you gain +2cm girth?

Please say you do not live in lappeenranta. Only rumours of that kind of monster cock in town make other men insecure. 😁

Quite interesting study at the nano-scale level of ligament tissue that I don’t remember discussing here. It sheds further light on how the tissue deformes within the elastic region.

First off it confirms that the tissue deformation does in fact occur within the elastic region, not past the elastic limit as was debated earlier in this thread. They were not ever able to realize a “plastic region”, but instead just instantaneous failure at the tissue level within the linear elastic region.

Their focus was primarily on strain rate and strain% at three different levels of observation; (1) macro tissue level, (2) micro fibril level, and (3) nano molecular level. At the smallest scales they literally measured the gap length between molecules at various strain rates. What is seen by us as tissue strain actually has many counteracting mechanisms at the smaller scales to ensure tissue viability. All of which relate to our objectives here in fascinating ways.

First off, their strain rates were within a more normal physiological range of 0.001/s to 0.05/s. My proposed optimal rate of 0.005/m is just 0.00008/s which is orders of magnitude slower than their tests. And many of the manual exercises on TP are much faster than their highest rate. But it seems to me that the methods Kyrpa and others use on this thread are actually within the rates of this study, especially given consideration for time under tension.

What is most interesting is the mechanism producing the strain at different rates. IOW, are the fibrils deforming, the cells elongating, the gaps enlarging, or the fibrils sliding past each other? The answer is maybe on all accounts purely depending on the strain rate.

It’s counterintuitive, but at the fibril level, the higher the rate the less proportionally is attributable to fibril strain. This is explained by the modulus reactions at the tissue level vs fibril level. At the tissue level, the modulus (stiffness) increases 3.5x from the slowest to fastest rate. But at the fibril level, the modulus increases 11.5x. IOW, at high strain rates, the individual fibrils are highly resistant to deformation. So at high rates, the fibrils effectively have a molecular defense making them rigid and strong. At these high rates, tissue deformation is driven by cross-linkages breaking and fibrils shifting independent of one another in an effort to preserve the fibrils. Importantly, this is shown in other studies to trigger a healing response as the tissue requires immediate reinforcement to remain viable. We would see this as “toughening” of the tissue; the TA gets thicker, stiffer, and stronger. So while the immediate result is a fair amount of permanent tissue strain, the long term result is the tissue fortifying itself against future deformation. Other studies show this toughening response to slowly begin within 1-2 weeks of onset of repeated stress and ramping up heavily at 6-8 weeks. Tissue level modulus decreasing near baseline within 6-10 weeks of stress elimination, but tissue density remaining elevated even past 12-16 weeks.

So if we strain fast it might be possible to effect more significant immediate residual elongation due to bonds breaking and fibrils shifting, but the tissue will dramatically and quickly ramp up its toughening mechanism starting around 10-14 days and by 42-56 days will pretty much eliminate any possibility of further gains without exponentially increasing load or prolonged decon break at least 4-6 months to reach baseline values. Slight progress might be made as soon as 2-3 months decon, but despite a recovery of low modulus at the cellular level allowing for these modest gains, reaplication of stress will continue thickening the tissue that will not return to baseline values for several more months. I postulate that this is the primary mechanism of the “plateau”.

Now let’s contrast the slow strain rate mechanisms from this study. At slow rates there is effectively zero deformation of fibrils until 5% strain. This is observed as the straightening of the crimps representing the toe-heel region of the load-strain curve. (Side note, the study did not see a toe-heel region at the highest rates. The fibrils stiffen so quickly that it’s all elastic region). At sufficiently slow rates, tissue deformation is observed at both the fibril and molecular levels. Crimps straighten in gap regions, tropocollagen molecules slide past each other, gaps widen, cells elongate, fibrils deform… A key distinction here is that there is minimal damage to tissue. As opposed to a healing/toughening response, we see a neocollagenesis response. At a molecular level, the tissue is triggering the chemical response that will allow for functioning within its new base state.

Basically, we want strain to be happening at the molecular level first, fibril level second, and preferably not ever at the tissue level. So what is the optimal rate at each level. To avoid tissue level deformation, we absolutely must stay below 1%/s. This is absolutely certain, so if you do manuals at all, keep them very slow and even because 1%/s is already so slow that it’s difficult manually to do things that slow. At the molecular level, I haven’t been able to see a benefit to going slower than 0.1%/s although this is not true of the fibril level. At that level, the fibril continues to benefit exponentially at even slower rates with only marginal benefit below 0.01%/s.

If we go slow enough under heat, we are able to realize significantly greater strain in a single session but it likely won’t be as permanent as the fast rates. However, if we reach rates as low as 0.01%/s we should be able to continue with far fewer decon and with virtually no toughening of the tissues.

I’m becoming even more convinced that our objectives here can only be facilitated by mechanical device capable of incredibly slow rates of strain. I know it is discouraging to many because of greater complexity of design, but any type of spring loaded or continuous load (hanging weight) mechanism would be very difficult to accomplish this. You might try something like a hanging device in which 2kg of water or sand very slowly fills a container on a pulley over a span of about 10 minutes.

Optimally a device like mine giving stress relaxation and micrometer adjust at very slow rates.

For those who don’t want to interpret that long post, here’s the upshot. New research well demonstrates that other than 41-42C heat, the single most important technique is to stretch slower than 3mm per minute.

Critically, this doesn’t mean you can stretch it 3mm, lock it in place for one minute and then stretch it another 3mm, then lock it again. It means something more like during no 1-2 second interval within that minute did you stretch the penis >0.1mm longer than the previous 1-2 second interval. That’s why I’m saying this cannot be done with manuals, springs, elastic bands, hanging weights, etc.

This doesn’t mean that doing so won’t produce any gains. It is just my very strong and reasonably informed opinion that this is the main thing causing the dreaded “plateau”.

Very good write Tutt!! Thank you very much!!

I enjoyed the read and actually at the end you gave me a very good idea, very simple to create. My setup already consists of a rope that goes sideways at the same height of my penis while sitting down, then goes down through a pulley to a basket where I go adding incremental weights. In order to create a very slow strain, is very easy to accomplish with sand, using the mechanics of a sand clock. I can set a container designed to pour 2kg of sand every 10 minutes on top of a stand emptying directly onto the same basket underneath. This actually sounds like a great rate. I will consider this experiment for Period 3.

Again, that container can be built with an opening measured to exactly pass 2kg of sand every 10 minutes. With a simple valve to open once the penis is set in place to begin, or close in case no more weight is needed.

The sand clock was exactly what I had in mind for those whom don’t have a micrometer. Water works too.

Yes, however water creates those micro bumps when dripping that you will feel along the line of tension. Unless the water is routed through a chain or something that makes it smooth. Still, also because of potential less mess in the case of an unexpected catastrophic failure, sand is easier to clean and naturally pours in a very smooth way. Here in FL I would go to the gulf coast that has white sand as fine as powdered sugar which makes it perfect for this purpose.

The question that I’ve still not been able to answer relates to the optimal frequency of treatments. My current hypothesis is that sufficiently slow strain rates at optimal temp will allow for greater frequency and longer cycles. My current intention is to set the electronic motor at 2rpm which is 1.2mm/min strain rate. Stop the motor at 2kg load and hold for 5 min. Reverse the motor until 1kg load, then immediately start the 1.2mm/min strain again. I should be able to get 5-6 sets per 60 min treatment.

However, I’m not sure that even with this protocol I’ll be able to extend past 3 treatments per week for 6 weeks. Hypothetically, I should be able to do 1 treatment every 4-7 days almost indefinitely without a toughening response, but there is no indication yet as to how much elongation will remain after each rest period. Ad absurdum, if I did one treatment and rested for 3 months, I would expect to lose it all. So to for a one month rest after a single treatment. But within a month I start to lose confidence in that assumption. Intuitively, I’d like to say that one treatment every 3-4 days is probably optimal, but it sure would be great if it could be closer to once per week. So I might start with once per week and see if I just lose everything and start over each week.

Finally, I intend to cool down more slowly. I’ll be locking the strain on the last set and setting my machine to decrease the power output and bring the temp down gradually over a 10 minute period to prevent the cooling tissues from triggering a tissue level strain response. Which reminds me… We’d previously discussed that cooldown with cold packs appears counterproductive and ambient is better. This research would indicate why that is. If the strain is locked and the tissue cools too rapidly, it requires the breaking of primary bonds and fibril damage as there is tissue level contraction. The inference here is that if cold packs are bad, ambient is better, then a warm down is best at the molecular level. I’m not yet certain how slow the warm down should be. There is no supporting literature.

Superb posts, Tutt. Locking down strain rate parameters seems to be the next area of breakthrough for heat assisted tissue growth. I love the data and theorizing you’re sharing here. Definitely gets the gears turning.

Here are some questions that arise in my feeble mind:

1. Assuming a flaccid of, let’s say 4 and a BPFSL of 8, I’m getting my head around how increasing the strain rate works. Let’s say we’re shooting for a 3% strain rate on the session, and 0.05% of 4” is 0.2”, wouldn’t we increase the stretch by 0.2” every minute until we’ve hit the “wall”? So this hypothetical, to go from 4” to 8” would take about 20 minutes? Do I understand this correctly? Or would the strain rate need to be updated based on the ever-changing length?

2. Given how you guys are describing the use of water/sand to micro-load the stress, I wonder if I’m doing it wrong. I used to hang weights from a pully, but nowadays I just set up a cable to a fixed point in front of my chair, set up my hanger, and create tension (with a weight scale on the line to measure) by pulling out the slack in the cable and then slowly scooting back on my chair when I want to increase. It’s not very precise but once I hit a certain stress, I can keep it pretty steady by not moving back more, which I thought was an important component of the conditioning stretch. With the super slow controlled strain rate, would you need to “lock in” the load at all as long as you moved slowly enough to avoid activating the stretch reflex?

3. Could you describe the tool you’re created and perhaps give some steps to replicate something similar? I feel like that would be the most helpful thing you could do after elaborating so well on why strain rate is key. I’m about to end my first full period, and have about 30 days to build something for the next one. If you share how to build something like this, I’ll happily put your theories to the test. I’m still looking for plenty of length gains and hate time off :P

Also, I feel it’s worth adding regarding using two US Transducers.

If you’ve only been using one so far, do yourself a favor and get another.

The difference between using one and using two is massive. I went from struggling to hit 39 degrees between my leg and dick with one transducer, and to do that I had to stay in the same area for a really long time (circling around of course). With two, I can essentially cover my entire surface area with medium sized circles and I hit 41 degrees C quite easily, even while doing bundled stretches.

You can tape them together side by side so it’s one unit, just use some cardboard to brace the middle part (or maybe a rolled washcloth) and masking tape over it to make it easy to keep clean. I’d also recommend taping the power lines together until about 1’ from the actual plug to avoid tangling and so on. I’d also recommend getting a small bowl you can put the ultrasound gel in so you just dip the heads in a little bit to get enough to keep things going.

Using two at a time has made the heating easy and very reliable for me. No more stressing about whether I’m wasting my time because I’m not in the target range.