Gaining volume with Kyrpa

Kyrpa does higher frequency and higher volume than me. His protocol is effective and well documented in this thread.

Mine is still experimental, in the early stages. I do 2 treatments per week; Mon and Thurs. Each one the penis is under load for an hour. The whole process with setup and cleanup takes about 90 minutes. I do that 2x a week for 24 days, and then take a rest for a couple months to let the collagen reorganize.

This is probably the lowest frequency and lowest volume advocated anywhere on these boards. It is based on making the rest periods and rate of strain the focus of the protocol. The literature, and now my experience strongly supports the idea that the two most important factors are a very slow strain rate and frequent long rest periods. My theory is that the combination might be able to prevent the seemingly inevitable plateau and allow the average person to keep elongating for extra length of >7.5cm without requiring over 3kg load.

So you basically put your penis under maximum 3kg load in your sessions, but what kind of heating sistem do you couple it with? How long have you been doing it? Do you have a tread where you explain this?

No, I’ve described my treatment in fair detail a few pages back in this thread. But I have actually learned quite a bit over the past 2 weeks that will require alteration of the treatment. Basically what it comes down to is that rate of strain is MUCH more important than I originally thought. I knew that it was important because all of the research said that stretching very slowly allowed for greater elongation of tendons with much less damage. But in these studies, they usually didn’t test just how slow is best. There was one study that showed a 1%/minute strain was able to achieve incredible elongation. So recently I have tested a few different strain rates; 0.5%, 1.0%, 2%, and 12% per minute.

The short summary is that 12% was WAY too fast and caused the tissue to stiffen dramatically. This means that when we quickly load into the stretch, the collagen tissues instantly stiffen and resist the stretch. This means in order to produce the permanent strain we would need to use really high loads. Then what happens is that our body will respond and thicken/strengthen the TA to be able to handle that high load the next time.

2%/minute was much better than 12%, but there was still a dramatic (i.e. exponential) increase in the load as the strain increased. 1%/minute was significantly better than 2% and with heat I actually reached a point that the strain and load were increasing proportionately. 0.5%/minute was even better than 1%, but it wasn’t quite as much benefit, because what ends up happening is that it takes a REALLY LONG TIME, to achieve target strain at such a slow rate. Because for this to really work well, you have to start the stretch at about 0.5kg load, which for the most part will be well below the BPFSL.

For example, your relaxed length at 0.5kg load might be just 130mm while your typical BPFSL at high load might be 180mm. That means a strain rate of 0.5%/minute will be 0.9mm/minute. This means it will take 55 minutes just to progress up to the BPFSL. Then in my experience I’m able to stretch at that rate for another 10-15 minutes before I exceed 4kg load. But by then I’ve had my penis strained for too long and heated for too long, and my tailbone is hurting from sitting stationary for too long. So for me, it makes more sense to perform a warmup stretch at 1%/min and then do another 1%/min stretch on the second set just until I get close to the BPFSL and then slow down to 0.5%/min.

In the end, there are so far four elements to the treatment that are absolutely key.
1- Heat the internal tissues to at least 38-39C throughout all stretching. Then make sure that for the stretch close to and beyond the BPFSL, the internal tissues are heating to 41-42C for at least several minutes.
2- Try not to exceed a 1%/minute strain rate.
3- The ultimate strain must go at least 2.5-3.0% past the BPFSL to result in permanent elongation. And with a slow enough strain rate it can go well past that.
4- Once we reach the longest stretch, we need to lock the length and remove the heat to allow the tissues to cool in a fully extended state.

If there is a fifth key element, it will likely be to create a cyclic strain protocol, but so far it seems that the strain rate is more important than the cycles. And if we are limiting the treatment time to around 60 minutes, then multiple cycles aren’t really possible.

I’m working on proving whether RF is the better heating method for these treatments right now. But it will be some time before I have answers. Basically, we are talking about the same frequencies 1-3mHz. But the question is sound waves vs electromagnetic waves.

US is problematic for several reasons. Sound waves require a consistent medium to travel through. For example, sound cannot travel through space and US cannot even travel through air. This also makes sound waves highly susceptible to the interface between various media, which is why we have to use coupling gel. And we have to provide a way for the sound waves to exit the tissue or the air interface can reflect the waves back into the tissue, which is not a good thing with sound. Like a ripple in a pond bouncing off the shoreline, some waves will exactly offset and cancel the energy. Others will form standing waves with too much intensity and cause a pinching sensation. This is why the method of using the leg on the opposing side seems to work quite well. The tissue closely resembles the penis tissue and the waves pass through cleanly with most energy being absorbed about 2-3cm from the sound head.

Also, US sound waves are created through plate vibration with a gaussian shape (stronger in the middle and weakers on the edges). It also radiates outward. It is actually rather difficult to collimate sound with a flat top; IOW, create a column of kinetic energy with even intensity across the full width. So even though our US soundheads appear large, the useable portion with enough power to heat the tissues is a small peak right in the center and we have to move it around to create bulk heating. This means that it is purely up to your technique in being able to maintain consistent temps of 41-42C while at the same time slowly stretching the tissue.

EM waves, on the other hand, are much more easily controlled. Especially at long wavelengths like radio waves, they pass through many different media quite readily, including air and vacuum. They can be fairly easily collimated and transformed into a flat top distribution across a large area. For example, I’ve created high power non-divergent columns of EM energy able to evenly and simultaneously warm a glass plate that is 30x30 cm. Soon, I should be able to hover a 40cm^2 EM handpiece in a stationary manner over the shaft and induce consistent regulated 43C temps evenly from 1-20mm depth, with even temp across the entire shaft. IOW, all collagen heated to the target temp at the same time and held there for 5-10 minutes. I’ll also have the ability to test temps up to 45C without worrying about dangerous energy spikes. There is a reason we use microwave ovens and not ultrasound ovens.

Should be interesting. I suspect that with stable temps at 42C and brief increases to 45C while simultaneously straining @ 0.5%/min we should be able to achieve strains in excess of 7% without exceeding 3kg load and with relatively limited damage to the tissues. Then combined with adequate rest and ESWT for tissue neogenesis, a whole new world will open up.

One quick word of caution about using the leg as the energy dump for the US. At these frequencies, the waves are highly selective to adipose tissue that is virtually nonexistent in the penis, but lives in abundance just under the skin of the inner thigh. Adipose cells are highly susceptible to energy induced apoptosis relative to all other tissues. Cell viability generally remains if temps are kept low (38-41C) but begins to increase thereafter. Skin can handle temps of 45C for a couple hours and remain viable. But adipocytes can’t take it. At 45C for just 3 minutes there will be up to 60% apoptosis and adipocytes are thought to not generally have the ability for neogenesis. It generally takes about 3-4months after the heat treatment for complete apoptosis, so it is a delayed fuse.

So to you guys using your leg as a heat sink, be very careful about just pushing through the burn to ensure that the TA gets hot enough. A year from now you are likely to start developing a big depression on your inner thigh. There are already 2 FDA approved fat reduction devices in common use that use this exact same process and frequency to get rid of belly fat, love handles, saddle bags, and <gasp> inner thigh fat.

This clears up some confusion I had. I was under the impression that one should start the strain at BPFSL and go up from there.

Thanks

That is the traditional method; go quickly right up to the BPFSL and then pull hard past it.

Kyrpa measures the BPFSL and uses a long low-load conditioning stretch to get all the way up to the BPFSL or very close when starting the rest of his treatment. This serves the same purpose. You need to get the penis to the BPFSL slowly and in a relaxed non-stiffened condition. Otherwise you are just fighting against tissue that is already working against you.

If I don’t have fat in my thighs and just veins and muscle Im ok?

Everyone has the adipocytes. Even if you are only 4% body fat, they are all still there and still just as vulnerable to heat induced apoptosis. In your case they are just very small in size and not holding much fat. So let’s say you kill off 80% of them doing PE and because you are very low BF you don’t notice any difference. Then later in life like nearly everyone else your BF increases to like 15%. You’ll then have big noticeable depressions on your inner thighs.

In theory yes. Do we develop such a condition, I doubt.

Tutt , I think you are shooting here with guns too large now.
I have been on the treatment now longer for a year using the method with a bodyfat far beyond the 15%.
And I felt the painful heat in my thigh only briefly time to time.
Despite of it, there is no such a depression developed in the adipose tissue.

I don´t know what happened to the critical academic approach here , stating such a statements based on anecdotes guys “feeling” the painful heat.
I have recently published the heating test in the ultrasound thread, and there we can see the skin to skin temp having mean temperature of 40.4C at it best.
It is reasonable to believe the fat temperature in the thigh being couple of degrees higher.

That said I still think the statements are kind of bold at the moment.Both for you to at the theoretical side and for me to deny it based only on my experiences.
Both are lacking the knowledge of the adiposal temperature.

Possibly. Remains speculative at this point.

If we rely on Warren & Lehmann ,at the 45C temperature the strain inducing permanent elongation can be produced damage free.
How far it can be reached remains unknown for the penile structure. Theoretical 7% during one session sounds very brave in practice though.

Tutt is runnning his approach by slowly increasing the stress level as seamless as possible guided by the strain at the time.
What I did was to take a series of load strain curves with incremental loading and judged by it decided the loading stages for three different phase in my exercise.
After the loads had been decided based on what level of strain they produce in given time , I then replicated the process in my workouts.

We are both founded the approaches on strain. Strain is a consecuense of three variables, load, temperature and time.

Yes the Phase 1- stress relaxation stretch is my equivalent of the Tutt method of slowly introducing the strain.
It takes up to 30 minutes to reach everything is possible to stretch cold by the stress-relaxation process.
After that the tissue is already at the stiffening portion and further strain is achieved by the elevating heat during the phase 2.
Eventually at the beginning of the phase 3 , the tissue is moldable because of the influence of the therapeutic heat. Molding the tissue longer with cyclical manual stretches then everything possible to reach is carried out.

The whole exercise lasts 60-70 minutes and is done within 5 days cycles ,3 days exercises and followed with 2 days of rest. Cycle is repeated to the point post- exercise BPFSL does not gain anymore.

It was just a caution. If the tissue remains around 39-41C, there should be no issue. But we both know that some US devices are capable of producing temps higher than that. There is much literature now showing adipocyte apoptosis at 45-47C for 3-10 minutes. Several different lipolysis machines work by heating the fat layer at 1.5cm depth to about 45C for around 5 minutes. It is shown repeatedly to be very effective. I’ve tested it on myself and 45C is not unbearable, and it did result in a reduction of the fat layer in the target area by a significant amount.

My main point if it wasn’t clear is that the beneficial effect of US for PE happens around 41-42C, which would only be mildly uncomfortable. People here should not be pushing through the burn hoping to elevate the temp of the TA further. Especially if that heat is building up in the thigh. It’s not necessary. I think it’s a great idea to place a thermometer between the penis and the thigh a couple times to get an idea what 41C feels like.

Yes indeed. My bigger question is whether 3-4% can be produced repeatedly at lower than 3kg load without hitting a plateau. But I think 7% is possible if 45C can be reached in a safe and controlled manner and the strain is slow enough, given the test results we discussed earlier this week. I’m a bit curious what the tissue would feel like afterward though in a cold resting state. I would assume the nerves would have something to say for a bit.

I am pretty sure several days lasting loss on ercetion thats for sure If the penis is stretched out 7 % in one session.

If the strain remains under 15% relative to the the BPEL, the nerves should tolerate the strain well.

For the plateau, it all depends on the gains. Despite the low level external stresses the internal cumulative stress on ECM will cause the plateau.
As we know the ECM residual stress builds up by two mechanotransduction sources. external stresses caused by the excercise and the internal stresses induced by the residual strain.

There is building lots of hypothesis on the literature that for the natural cellular growth stopping ,main reason can be indeed the cellular stress reaching a threshold pressure.
Also there is lot of indications that despite the collagenous structure remodelling and turnover has been completely processed the residual ECM stress remains.

Taking these aspects in count, I believe, it is un-natural to avoid plateaus completely.

With your approach the way should be smoothened, but to keep avoiding the plateau you should be gaining very slowly as well.
But with these methods we have that is not an option.