Clamping: Advanced Empirical Discussion

Not really. We are not enduring long periods of constriction. TUC is constrained at 18 minutes for me. All thats new in the OLF/OLR method is simply recognizing how we carry fatigue and how we carry recovery over time. We are just looking at it from a simpler perspective…instead of going by rules of thumb, we can use this to test out what we are doing to ourselves.

This could be messing with prostate issues. That’s all I have really come up with.

Drugs are irrelevant here, I can’t imagine any sort of codependent side effect. I’m not sure what you mean exactly. I need cialis because I encounter ED during the time that I am using other drugs (side effect). I don’t intend to use it to surpass normal fatigue indicators.

ShyMplsMale, I enjoy your posts and I don’t mean to pick on them. I have never heard of a weightlifter lifting for 7 months and seeing no gains, and reacting by taking a break. Usually he would instead check his routine and find out why he is not gaining.

This doesn’t seem to have anything to do with “deconditioning.” He didn’t gain in the start, it’s not that he gained girth and then stopped.

Please note that I mentioned a 2 week OLF period simply because it seemed to be a common response among clampers. It seems that the overloading of fatigue per day that necessitated a break after 2 weeks usually caused gains (based on a very small sample). It may be a month, or a week, or a day, it depends. This is just a hunch.

Regarding the routine outlined…I want to note two things:

1. I’m excited to see what might happen with the experiment. I’d prefer to keep set frequency as stable as possible, because I have a hunch that the reason for gains is connected with fatigue held over time. If you are doing 10 sets, you need a day or two with 1 or 2 sets, therefore you are activating recovery during the OLF period. The goal is instead to carry fatigue over time, either increasing frequency or holding it constant, and then entering a period of increasing or holding carried rest constant.

In your method, you are basically complicating the test by inserting OLF and OLR periods within the weeks. This might be good, but it would be harder to analyze, and I also think you need at least 2 weeks of fatigue holding (not carrying rest at all) before gains are seen. This is kaan’s experience, along with others. So instead of going up to 10, you could hold it steady at 5, or whatever frequency is needed to carry fatigue for the OLF time period you desire. There should be no days here in which you do not carry fatigue to the next day…you should not recover completely, in that sense.

2. This 10 set per day thing did not work for me. In my opinion, diminishing marginal gains are huge past the 5-6 set barrier. This is just out of my experience. I’d focus on TUC before doing clamping marathons.

Finally, EVO is a necessity in my opinion - it’s just a very positive thing in general. Get the oils and use olive oil as a base, mix it, and apply consistently with a sock on it. You may need to wear boxers (if you don’t already) in order to avoid staining your pants.

I have to disagree here.

1. On the first point, The Man is right: it’s all about nesting and the ondulatory cycle of stimulus-recovery-supercompensation; repeating these cycles in shorter time frame is what should cause enhanced gains in a shorter period of time. Doing the adverse means just repeating what people commonly does: doing so much they can, repeteadly, with a monotonous path : this is what makes plateaus even harder to overcome.

2. This 10 set day did not work for you: well, it’s not the piece, it’s the whole picture that has to make sense. About duration of sets: here The Man has to say what he feels he can manage. 18 minutes could be safe for you, but not for him.

Also, going too near to the max fatigue on single sets makes subesequent sets pretty much unuseful, under a logical poin of view : you are beating a dead horse. Leaving some fuel for next run is what cause fatigue accumulation (again : nesting).

1. Remember what we noted about kaan and the other member. Both saw unusual gains after approximately 2-4 weeks of continuous fatigue holding. Also, remember kaan’s sternness about his experience: he specifically stated that he believed that gains would not be seen unless a minimal period of 2 weeks (of fatigue holding) was used. That is why I mentioned this.

2. It is an individual experience. However, I think we must also keep in mind that clamping marathons with low TUC only worked for one person we know of (BG). However, we know of many individuals with high TUC and low frequency who gained well. Also, I have mentioned the TUC issue before. 20 something minutes is not some golden rule for “cell death,” it depends on each person’s cardiovascular health and so on.

Regarding the last paragraph: I think you might need to test this out to see what I mean, my friend. I have tried above 10 sets per day at 10 minutes TUC, and I have tried up to 5 sets per day at 18 TUC. Major difference is gains, and no dead horse effect. Bear in mind, sets are done throughout the day somewhat equally dispersed. The short-term fatigue isn’t an issue for that reason.

However, marinera’s point about the cycle length and TUC are very valid. The experience of other members at holding fatigue for 2 weeks (but below a month) may simply be odd cases. I don’t feel that is the case, but they may be. Shorter cycles might work better (that’s what BG did in reality). Also, some people cannot tolerate the TUC that others can, judge your own cardiovascular health and move up in TUC very slowly to be sure (as I advised Thick Cock).

If you want to see how Kaan’ method works on somebody else, just do a “Kaan’ routine experiment”. I was believing you had in mind something more elaborated that just copying a routine that worked for (one? two? three?) clampers - and probably didn’t worked for many others, we could say using a bit of common sense.

What I mean is, any experiment can be good, but make clear which hypothesis you are testing doing it; by what I can see, you are not really interested in testing my thougths - just pointing this out. :)

I’ll look at the experiment with the max interest of course.

I am not overly interested in testing this in general. However, my idea is on cycling OLF/OLR routines consistently, beginning with a 2 week OLF period that is static (to make things simpler). Kaan did not do this. He did a month, saw gains after 2 weeks, and seems to have never done it again. The other person I mentioned continued for a month and got injured (seems to have extended the OLF period too far), despite experiencing unusual gains.

I am not sure that I am “copying” a routine, or that common sense indicates that this didn’t work for many others. Quite the opposite, from my experience clampers tend to cycle in short breaks (as the routine posted, and as BG did), in which they carry huge amounts of fatigue for a few (2-4) days and then recovery for some days. That is what I have seen not to work well, and to be the common inclination among obsessive clampers.

I am also not copying a routine because I simply created the terminology, none of this is original from me. My only addition to this whole issue is terminology, so that we can view workouts in terms of carrying fatigue and carrying recovery. My personal belief, developed over experience and what I have read from others, is that extending the fatigue time period seems to work, as long as injury is not reached by carrying fatigue for too long.

I hope I have made both my input and position clear. If you would wish to test short cycles, I wish you well and will watch closely. However, I have personally used short cycles (that’s when I did the marathons), and found them to be suboptimal. Since I have began longer cycles (last 2 weeks) I have seen much better results. Therefore, I would rather test what seems to work, instead of test what seems to not work.

Fine - test it. That’s what I was saying, you are going to test something different than my inputs - a routine modeled on Kaan’ one, introducing a new terminology. Not criticizing, just making things clear.

Yes, when I said enhancers I meant edging, etc. not any actual drugs like cialis. I will lay off any drugs as EQ is the number 1 sign of overtraining when clamping IMO other than obvious injuries.

The reason I like to stay erect is that my expansion seems to be slightly higher when clamping if I am. I still am expanded if I let the erection subside but when I measure it is always slightly more when erect and clamping. Maybe I can experiment with tightening the clamp further and see if the measurements are the same.

The differences are:

1. Period of time carrying fatigue (he did one month, so did the other guy mentioned)

2. kaan held erection throughout and double clamped (I don’t see this as necessary, he thought it was critical due to aristocane’s blabbering)

3. Longer TUC (he aimed for 15, I aim for 18)

The only similarity is in carrying fatigue for a period of time.

If that works for you do it. I haven’t found it to be necessary, but it might promote better gains if growth is based on expansion. I simply can’t edge in clamp because of the degree of expansion and constriction I have, so it’s not even an option for me anyway.

What do you mean by this? How much expansion do you get set by set?

No offense take :)

As for weightlifting, if my diet was in check and I wasn’t gaining muscle, I’d take a break. It won’t harm anything and can only do good. American bodybuilders look down on this but other countries (especially those in Eastern Europe and Russia) don’t. When I say deconditioning, I don’t mean don’t touch your penis. Have sex, do some edging, masturbate a little, keep it active. Doing absolutely nothing (no sex, no edging, no masturbation, etc) would probably be worse than keeping it active.

It’s just another strange PE mystery. I’m with the theory that if you don’t gain in a few months, it’s time to up the intensity or take a break. Most of the time, people already have enough intensity but they are just too conditioned. Let the tissue decondition so when you come back, you can start gaining instead of waiting for a few months, hoping for a gain. If you don’t take a decon break and you do gain a little, your chances of gaining even more are slim. That’s why I am a big believer in decon breaks. I have done research (even wrote a non-scientific paper on decon breaks) and all signs point to decon breaks :D

About deconditioning and weight training, a very short resume can be found here:

About deconditioning and PE, these are just few of thre related threads:
Who has found that gains come easier after a long lay off?
Strategic Deconditioning
Breaks and progress?

I realize I should measure this, but I do not actually have measuring tape so it is quite a feat to try to figure out my EG. I approximate however that it is about an inch of difference across all sets. It may be because of how tightly I wrap, but trying to physically stimulate an erection would be impossible (skin cannot move up and down at that expansion level for me).