Loading, lengthening, healing.

Hey guys. Thanks for bumping this thread. The theory of the initial post make a lot of sense. I’m going to research this thread some more…. Cheers

To make this threads findings practical, I am proposing that we take the following measurements:

A) BPFSL t0 (prework)
B) BPFSL t1(elastic limit = suggested reached after 60min of ADS)
C) BPFSL t2(creep/postwork) taken after weight + fulcrum + heat + timeXsets in any combination
D) BPFSL t3(postcooldown/creeploss) taken after cooldown in ads suggested 60min

Those would be the raw numbers.

Then we can have the following metrics which can be in absolute or percentage terms to work with:
strain = B-A
creep = C-B
creeploss = D-C

Taken over time and logged we can see cause and effect of different methods (i.e. hanging, fulcrum, heat, etc) and compare findings to see i.e what achieves higher creep and lowers creeploss, etc. How fast we can achieve elastic limit, stress vs time. The role of temperature. How we can affect the cord optimally and ultimately increase BPEL.

My first workout I achieved a strain gain of 0.50cm to the elastic limit, 0.50 creep with heat, and -0.30 creeploss.

I was doing this without reading about it, lol, I guess it is the best way, for me at least. I can’t wait to switch angles and compare my current stats with the SO and Upwards hanging post bpfsl measurement. These are guidelines for me, I’ve always measured a lot and thought it is counterproductive for my mind state, but it compensates with knowing all these things and taking notes so that I have something to compare and rely on later on for new routines/different timings/etc.
Thank you manko!

That’s great! Care to share your average metrics and the protocol that attributes them? How long have you been logging them? Can you plot a graph? What is your strain gain, creep, and creeploss in general? Do you use temperature and fulcrums? What is an indicator of gains for you(if I had to guess, I suppose a gain in creep followed by a gain in BPFSL t0 over time)?

You are right on the money here. This is great read.
More than looking for absolute centimeters or fractions of inches I would prefer to keep an eye on percentages.
One should be looking for slightly more than 2,5 % in every exercise aiming over elastic limits.

Your post in another thread actually gave me the idea roughly. So kudos to you.

I agree with percentages.

It seems usually my elastic limit is reached at 2% by ads of 60min, however, I have not tried e.g. 120min to see if I get >2%. Based on the first study, I think it said 60min was the max necessary for this, if I read correctly.

My last session I achieved only 1.5% creep partially because the vac hanger was being uncooperative and was able to hang half the time. Then I got blisters. So I will have to use the bib hanger.

How did you come up with 2.5% being the minimum necessary?

I am guessing that if one fails to achieve e.g 2.5%, one should aim to increase the weight/temperature/time? all else equal, until 2.5% is maintained.

FWIW, i always measure 25cm and over milimetrically after hanging my heaviest weight, my pre work bpfsl would be at 24, sometimes milimetrically over or under, I sometimes think it depens on the salty/sugary foods I ate or on too much alcohol and nicotine maybe, my bpfls after60min ADS wouldn’t change very much from my usual morning bpfsl measurement*pre workout*, and after the cool down for which I DO use COLD instead of heat, it might go over 24 or might remain at 24 but never under…I will take new measurements and make a proper sketch of this soon.

Good thread, it’s important to constantly measure bpfsl, at least once every 2-3 days as a hanger.

Awsome man! I also noticed 0 change in bpfsl whether I used an ADS or not. Do you use ADS at all?

Im seriously sceptical if ADS does anything in terms of gains.

In starting to think the only thing that gives gains is heavy stretching heavy hanging or high tension extender.

I gained in the same rate from only using extender as I did from using extender and wearing ads all waking hours… Seemed the ads did nothing.

Some exact numbers would be helpful and percentages and see how it compares to others here.

Today I hung again and took measurements. My elastic limit was reached at 2.15% or 0.50cm over bpfsl prework, same as before, albeit in only 20min of ads. So 60min may not be necessary. Then my first set at 4.2kg my creep was 1.58% or 0.30cm over elastic limit. So I upped the weight to 5.2kg and achieved a creep of 2.63% 0.50cm over elastic limit on the second set. It is worth mentioning I did not feel fatigue on 1st set, and certainly felt fatigue (tingling in cord, stretched area) on 2nd set. Using heat always, except for reaching elastic limit.

Great to see you are taking measurements and finding similar observations what I have found.

Percentage comes from picking pieces from here and there of the studies available.
There are mentions in a side notes of some ligament stress relaxation studies that microfailures start to occur as low as 2.5 - 4.2% of strain. Stress relaxation and creep are two separate phenomenon and should be treated that way as well.

Stress relaxation occurs faster than creep and with way more lower loads. It also have been discussed in this particular thread earlier. According to multiple studies stress relaxation rate start to diminish at 2.5% strain.

For an example this link contains some studies and further links where ligament stress relaxation and creep have been tested and studied. With google I happen to found pictures of the stress relaxation curves where microfailures are shown to start quite early in the linear part of the curve (elastic region).

Biomechanics. Ligament viscoelasticity, tendon viscoelasticity: nonlinear non-QLV

Yes but in different order. Temperature, time and weight would be the safest option. With resisting cord cases the only option.

[/Quote]

About the ADS whether it’s important or not. As a newbie, maybe it’s not important, but after you’ve done 5-6months of PE you will feel the need for an ADS/ADH or even ADC to never go back to smallest flaccid(I find that counterproductive for gains) Almost every known PE practitioner has promoted some sort of ADS so they can heal in a more extended state. I sometimes feel the best hanging sessions are on my rest days on which I only hang 0,5kg as an ADH and a max of 1,5kg 2,5kg depending on how I feel, low weight tension seems to be my thing but I still hang 4-4,5kg right now as a max weight….all and all an ADS can’t hurt, and it can definately never be counterproductive for length gains imo

So when you are working or in school, what kind of ADS do you wear?

I see. Thank you for the concise answer. Experientially 2.5% "creep" seems to be a catalytic point for me. That is 2.5% above elastic limit. If I account also for elastic stretch, then I reach about 4.8% total stretch from baseline.

Have you managed more than 2.5% creep? Stretch above elastic limit? It seems to be the max for me, unless I increase the weight substantially, maybe I can go higher, but then probably turtleing would ensue.

Anyway, at current level I seem to be gaining again. I measured and my BPEL increase by 0.2mm since starting this thread and follow the science, fulcrum, temperature, and cord isolation. After years of no results. I am pretty confident this works.