Thunder's Place

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The Holy Grail of PE is found!!!

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Originally Posted by sparkyx
Welcome B.S.,

Most of the low vacuum, longer duration pumpers, as well as most pumpers HAVE found that heat improves results.your thinking is correct.

I don’t think low vacuum damages much tissue (thats why guys have gotten steady progress), I think it falls in the category of cell growth stimulation with mild plastic deformation.

I think it may even be too little force for plastic deformation (for some pumpers), which is where moderate jelquing may come in.

[I’m sure human tissues have a range of force needed, not an exact number. Probably effected by genetics, nutrition, age and damage.]

Wad had written a thread on a big gainer friend of his, the guy had added like 3 feet of dick (I’m kidding).

Wad felt that the key for this guy was modest jelquing forces where he gradually added TIME not increased force.

The guy had never had discoloration or injury. I think he finally increased his time to the point of overtraining and plateaued.

Every time he would plateau and quit.when he came back after like a year or something, he would start easy and build up again.and bust through his old plateau.

Seems to fit the bill EXACTLY like were talking here.

The trick is if we can develop some force/time RANGES as a rough guideline, then PIs to know where you’re at in the cycle.

Throw in some deconditioning time ranges ( as well as patience and discipline) and I think you have the recipe for a big dick! :)

Hey sparkyx, thanks for the welcoming. As you said, low vacuum pumping wouldn’t create enough force on the tissues to create plastic deformation, but what about pumping to a higher vacuum for a couple of minutes to create that force needed for the deformation (but not lymph build-up) and then dropping to a lower vacuum to maintain the expanded state for the rest of the set combined with the heat? Give me your thoughts, it’s well appreciated.

Current 7 1/4" BPEL 6" EG, want to be 7.5 - 7 3/4" BPEL 6.5" EG

Originally Posted by Black Swordsman
Hey sparkyx, thanks for the welcoming. As you said, low vacuum pumping wouldn’t create enough force on the tissues to create plastic deformation, but what about pumping to a higher vacuum for a couple of minutes to create that force needed for the deformation (but not lymph build-up) and then dropping to a lower vacuum to maintain the expanded state for the rest of the set combined with the heat? Give me your thoughts, it’s well appreciated.

Thats exactly what I HAVE been talking about here!

Medium forces to create slight plastic deformation WITHOUT causing contraction reaction/inflammation/fibrosis…then follow with low forces for longer duration.

Heat of course usually allows all this to occur at lower forces, and speeds cell growth and healing.

For now, I’m going with a 20 minute minimum time frame at low forces to stimulate cell growth ( its the best info I’ve found so far and seems to correlate to anecdotal reports).

Plastic deformation…I don’t know of any guidelines off the top of my head (I’ll read MX’s stuff) but I would say watch the PI’s carefully, especially MEASURE daily and determine the LEAST force necessary to get gains with out causing major contraction reaction.

I would say (just as a guess) make sure you are thoroughly heated, start with 2 in hg ABOVE your normal vacuum for about 5 minutes…then reduce to your normal routine.

You have to be doing daily measuring (at least bpfl) so you can see what type of reaction it is having on you.

If there is no changes, either shortening or lengthening…then up it another 1 in hg…and do the same observation. If still no change, up the time by another 5 minutes.

You could shuttle back and forth between time and vacuum force increases.

I would give each change a week of observation before adding addition vacuum or time.

Once you find a combination that is producing gains, I would say stick with it until gains stop. Daily measuring will let you see when this happens.

At that point, I think you may try another 1 in hg increase and observe. If that gets it going…great…ride it as long as you can.

If your progress halts again, I really think a deconditioning break would be far superior to any addition force/time.

Overall, I think its better advice to give you to add jelqing between sets of pumping. This has been done with success by many different pumpers.

I like this approach because it will allow modest plastic deformation, PLUS tends to counteract some of the fluid migration that pumping can cause.

I think it also helps strengthen the blood vessel walls in a way that actually allows you to have better results with pumping.

The higher vacuum for brief times I’m sure can be MADE to work, but if your interested in gains as opposed to experimentation…I’d advise to go the jelquing route.

Great success has also been seen when you add ADC (all day constriction) with some soft constrictor like a strip of t-shirt, ace bandages, thera-p wrist wrap, or other similar material.

This falls into the catagory of low force long duration stimulation cell growth or at least allowing the expanded tissues to heal in an expanded state.

There are long, on going threads that cover this.

Happiness begins where selfishness ends!

Physiologic Indicators for Growth (PI's) Force Thresholds

Erectile Quality Thread (EQ) Is Less,More?

Originally Posted by sparkyx
Thats exactly what I HAVE been talking about here!

Medium forces to create slight plastic deformation WITHOUT causing contraction reaction/inflammation/fibrosis.then follow with low forces for longer duration.

Heat of course usually allows all this to occur at lower forces, and speeds cell growth and healing.

For now, I’m going with a 20 minute minimum time frame at low forces to stimulate cell growth ( it’s the best info I’ve found so far and seems to correlate to anecdotal reports).

Plastic deformation.I don’t know of any guidelines off the top of my head (I’ll read MX’s stuff) but I would say watch the PI’s carefully, especially MEASURE daily and determine the LEAST force necessary to get gains with out causing major contraction reaction.

I would say (just as a guess) make sure you are thoroughly heated, start with 2 in hg ABOVE your normal vacuum for about 5 minutes.then reduce to your normal routine.

You have to be doing daily measuring (at least bpfl) so you can see what type of reaction it is having on you.

If there is no changes, either shortening or lengthening.then up it another 1 in hg.and do the same observation. If still no change, up the time by another 5 minutes.

You could shuttle back and forth between time and vacuum force increases.

I would give each change a week of observation before adding addition vacuum or time.

Once you find a combination that is producing gains, I would say stick with it until gains stop. Daily measuring will let you see when this happens.

At that point, I think you may try another 1 in hg increase and observe. If that gets it going.great.ride it as long as you can.

If your progress halts again, I really think a deconditioning break would be far superior to any addition force/time.

Overall, I think it’s better advice to give you to add jelqing between sets of pumping. This has been done with success by many different pumpers.

I like this approach because it will allow modest plastic deformation, PLUS tends to counteract some of the fluid migration that pumping can cause.

I think it also helps strengthen the blood vessel walls in a way that actually allows you to have better results with pumping.

The higher vacuum for brief times I’m sure can be MADE to work, but if your interested in gains as opposed to experimentation.I’d advise to go the jelquing route.

Great success has also been seen when you add ADC (all day constriction) with some soft constrictor like a strip of t-shirt, ace bandages, thera-p wrist wrap, or other similar material.

This falls into the catagory of low force long duration stimulation cell growth or at least allowing the expanded tissues to heal in an expanded state.

There are long, on going threads that cover this.

Thanks sparky, I think I’ll start jelqing a bit after my sets and use a piece of T-shirt as an ADC (as oppose to a clamp) like you said. Only thing, I’ll be using heat throughout the WHOLE workout (from the 2-3 hours of pumping to the ADC) so it can not only improve the plastic deformation but also help it heal up way faster.

Current 7 1/4" BPEL 6" EG, want to be 7.5 - 7 3/4" BPEL 6.5" EG

Not trying to sound like a know-it-all, but the general consensus among us science geeks is that plastic deformation is a myth. Recognize that deformation, plastic, elastic and viscoelastic, is a concept/metaphor borrowed from materials science. It was originally used to describe changes in non-living materials such as metals.

What happens collagenous tissue (like what we are dealing with in PE) is not plastic deformation, but rather progressive fiber failure. Also the force/stress required to cause this sort of failure is probably much higher than any of us are using, heavy hangers included.

Started: 2/03, Finished: 5/06, Total Gains: 1.375” BPEL 1.5” EG, Details: Progress after a year or longer off?

Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible—M. C. Escher

Originally Posted by Black Swordsman

I think the best way would be to wrap the cylinder with a heat pad which you can control the heat more easily IMO. Plus I use a plastic cylinder (the gravel cleaner thing), so I think the coil would melt it :( . But the idea is great, Lapdist should sell some heat pads specially made and fitted for their cylinders as an option :p .

Heat = Quickest way to pack a tube.

Started: 2/03, Finished: 5/06, Total Gains: 1.375” BPEL 1.5” EG, Details: Progress after a year or longer off?

Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible—M. C. Escher

Originally Posted by Black Swordsman
Thanks sparky, I think I’ll start jelqing a bit after my sets and use a piece of T-shirt as an ADC (as oppose to a clamp) like you said. Only thing, I’ll be using heat throughout the WHOLE workout (from the 2-3 hours of pumping to the ADC) so it can not only improve the plastic deformation but also help it heal up way faster.

Sounds good to me!

How are you going to do that?

Happiness begins where selfishness ends!

Physiologic Indicators for Growth (PI's) Force Thresholds

Erectile Quality Thread (EQ) Is Less,More?

Originally Posted by MX
Not trying to sound like a know-it-all, but the general consensus among us science geeks is that plastic deformation is a myth. Recognize that deformation, plastic, elastic and viscoelastic, is a concept/metaphor borrowed from materials science. It was originally used to describe changes in non-living materials such as metals.

What happens collagenous tissue (like what we are dealing with in PE) is not plastic deformation, but rather progressive fiber failure. Also the force/stress required to cause this sort of failure is probably much higher than any of us are using, heavy hangers included.

This is a good point MX, just because we get some success, doesn’t mean our understanding of what is happening is correct.

We may be totally wrong about everything.

Personally, I really don’t think we really know what is happening.

I was just reading posts last night of some banned guy, who had gains and was convinced he knew exactly what was going on…

I realized we assume if we form a theory, and get gains based on that theory, we assume the theory has some validity, when really it may be totally wrong… yet get results.

Lets say I truly believe if I play Beatles tunes and put out cat food, it attracts cats.

So I play Beatles songs, and put out food…and cats come from all over the neighborhood.

Now, I’m convinced that cats have some weird affinity to the Beatles…right?

Later on I find that I get as many cats with other music…I may eventually figure out its the food, and the music really has no effect…or I may go to my grave thinking “I wanna hold your hand” makes cats come from miles…right?

It’d be great to know, but that would require quite a bit of money and a specific study of penis enlargement and lots of tissue biopsy studies to see what actually is going on.

Knowing should help us do it damn near perfect…but when is that gonna happen?

So, in the mean time…we do the best we can.

I am totally open to new info, but my greatest interest is in effectiveness!

Show me what works…and I’ll make it mine! :)

Happiness begins where selfishness ends!

Physiologic Indicators for Growth (PI's) Force Thresholds

Erectile Quality Thread (EQ) Is Less,More?

Cable clamps + Led Zeppelin music are the key to gains.
=========================================
Way, way down inside, I’m gonna give you my love,
I’m gonna give you every inch of my love,
Gonna give you my love.
Yeah! all right! let’s go!

Wanna whole lotta love?
Wanna whole lotta love?
Wanna whole lotta love?
Wanna whole lotta love?

Way down inside, woman,
You need love.

Way down inside, woman,
You need love.

Shake for me, girl
I wanna be your backdoor man

Started: 2/03, Finished: 5/06, Total Gains: 1.375” BPEL 1.5” EG, Details: Progress after a year or longer off?

Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible—M. C. Escher

>Cable clamps + Led Zeppelin music are the key to gains.

Common sense. Let me just paste the yet to be disproved old school consensus here: It need be vinyl or flat transferred Swan Song press to effectively shake digititis out of the system on warm up.

Originally Posted by xenolith
…I don’t know the mechanism, but I think its prolactin related, as in refractory period systematics, during which penis retraction is characteristic. I realize that refractory period systematics are considered to be effective over only relatively short time frames, measured in minutes to maybe 10s of minutes, but I suspect that the post-ejaculation neuro-biochemical recovery (refractory) period for something as fundamental to a male biologic system as the mechanism for procreation, i.e. ejaculation, is more preferentially conditioned into our systems’ recovery capabilities, IOW, its “short tracked”, relative to the neuro- biochemical recovery period for something that exists at the complete opposite end of the biological imperative spectrum, i.e. gonad enlarging.

IOW, as far as our biological systems are concerned, making your 6.5” x 5” into a 7.5” x 5.5” is a really low priority compared to launching sperm.

Excellent! I’ll just add that the refractory period might also be evolutionary in that if stimulation to ejaculation did cause the penis to grow, they’d probably grow too big for most vaginas and either women would have to evolve bigger vagina’s, or we couldn’t reproduce. So, there’s a survival need for the penis not to get to big out of pace with women’s reproductive systems.

Xenolith, your posts are golden.

Thank you.

BFLR

(12/5/2008) BPEL: 7.75" EG: 5.75" BSFL: 8.1" FL: 5" FG 4.25"||New Goal: NBPEL: 8" EG: 6"

Technique: 95% Wet Jelqing, 5% Low Vacuum Pumping

Photos Journal

Originally Posted by ThunderSS
Shit, this is a rerun.

Link

Patent Pending Chemical PE

Exactly
This was brought up in a thread I started about 3 months ago at MOS.

Lots of good information was posted by a user named Fuzzy Ken. Also the potential use of a drug named Potaba to further relax connective tissue and hence accelerating gains.

Finally,
This is the final piece to my plan. Penismith, thanks for pointing out the Potaba. Once I read up on that and its treatment of Peyronie’s Disease, it all makes sense to me, in a I’m-not-a-doctor way. PABA is a weaker version of Potaba.

I think fibrosis may be the reason my gains have slowed to a stop. My tunica feels like a leather strap in places.

My new plan is to take PABA during my decon break of about 4 weeks, with some heat application. Then use cialis to get longer term wood (erection for our non native friends) Then use the longer time cloth clamping instead of the plastic clamp. Or maybe I’ll order Monty’s airclamp. Along with continued PABA. I don’t know if it will work, but at least it’s a plan that makes sense. Hope for continued gains! Its amazing how all this new information has fit together in the last couple of months, Thunder’s Place is awesome.

Oh, yea. Time to share. Here’s what I found on PABA and Potaba.

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