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The Long Game: Learning with Longerstretch, Key Principles to Make Sustained Growth

Originally Posted by sentii
Yes an IR heating pad sounds good for that. I guess you haven’t tried it yet? You seem to favor clamping over pumping whereas I’m the other way around. Not saying that I actually think one is better, I just tend to favor putting peak pressures in skin rather than arteries. My reasoning is that I don’t like discoloration and I’m scared of venous leak. I don’t mind edema, to me it’s just a nuisance, because although it brings additional water volume into the skin, that doesn’t affect the forces your fascia sees because the pressure is commanded by the pump. In other words, edema WOULD drop the vacuum, but it doesn’t because we actively compensate by pumping more to maintain constant vacuum. So edema is irrelevant to me functionally speaking, if that makes sense. Just thought I’d explain that further. Not trying to say that one is better than the other, though as I say the simplicity of pumping with hot water and avoidance of discoloration and vascular stress do appeal to me. This is all theory, of course, I haven’t actually tried this stuff yet.

Not yet tried the infrared pad but I trust my fellow explorer Manko. He got in to +40° C range after 20 minutes using infrared pad on flaccid penis. So I would take it as a considerable choice as secondary heat source.
I have to say that I can´t confirm if I am favoring either clamp or pumping. And yes I now have had my share of skin darkening, it started to show while clamping and worsened during pumping.
During pumping I have already had bad looking bruises and thrombosis on superficial veins, even blood in the tube and etc. So they are risky business.

Therefor I would like to find the way on maximizing the preparatory manoeuvres, ( heat, stretching etc.) and minimizing the actual under pressure girth work still achieving best possible results without compromising too much..
This is what I am after and really keen on finding the solutions


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)


Last edited by Kyrpa : 12-15-2019 at .

Hi guys, I was just curious what the rationale is for the cyclic stretching exactly. That one paper mentions that cyclic stretching was used and that every cycle got closer to an eventual maximum strain, but it didn’t actually say that doing things cyclically was more effective than doing just a steady stretch, unless I’m mistaken. Just curious if you particularly read somewhere that cyclic loading was superior to uninterrupted stretching. Thanks ahead for any further elaboration on the basis of the cyclical approach you might be able to provide. This is all very exciting.

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
Not yet tried the infrared pad but I trust my fellow explorer Manko. He got in to +40° C range after 20 minutes using infrared pad on flaccid penis. So I would take it as a considerable choice as secondary heat source.
I have to say that I can´t confirm if I am favoring either clamp or pumping. And yes I now have had my share of skin darkening, it started to show while clamping and worsened during pumping.
During pumping I have already had bad looking bruises and thrombosis on superficial veins, even blood in the tube and etc. So they are risky business.

Therefor I would like to find the way on maximizing the preparatory manoeuvres, ( heat, stretching etc.) and minimizing the actual under pressure girth work still achieving best possible results without compromising too much..
This is what I am after and really keen on finding the solutions

Sounds good Krypa. Yes when I tried clamping many years ago I got all kinds of little blotches around the veins and didn’t like it. I think of pumping discoloration as something more like a hickey — not so nice but superficial enough in the epidermis to be gone in a few days. Clamping seemed more like a tattoo — iron deposits deep in the dermis that the body doesn’t have a good mechanism for removing. I could be wrong, though, and clamping and pumping are basically the same.

Regardless, anything that maximizes PE efficiency means gain targets reached with smallest possible side effects, and least time consumed, so I am very happy to see something so fundamentally promising as this kind of use of optimal heating and minimum effective dose stress application. Whether clamping or pumping is the superior way to apply radial stress, the main thing is that we’re maximizing PE efficiency.

Regarding heating pads, I like that they provide 360 circumferential as well as lengthwise coverage without need for attendance. So you can read a book or do work while heating everything. The one annoying thing about them is that many have a lot of dead area outside of the heating elements. I guess it is important to try to find one with the least dead fabric area possible.


Last edited by sentii : 12-16-2019 at .

Originally Posted by sentii
Hi guys, I was just curious what the rationale is for the cyclic stretching exactly. That one paper mentions that cyclic stretching was used and that every cycle got closer to an eventual maximum strain, but it didn’t actually say that doing things cyclically was more effective than doing just a steady stretch, unless I’m mistaken. Just curious if you particularly read somewhere that cyclic loading was superior to uninterrupted stretching. Thanks ahead for any further elaboration on the basis of the cyclical approach you might be able to provide. This is all very exciting.

Viscoelastic nature of the tissues we are trying to elongate.

This has been debated in my log starting at the page 15 I suppose.

Looking at the papers we should always look what they were doing and can the results be emulated in to situation we are going on. If the studies use loads that operate in the fully elastic range of the stress strain curve then there is not much difference in the outcome. Or if the aim was to investigate the difference in mobility of the joint stretching the ligaments cold there might be not so much difference in the outcome.

But we are not operating at the range the tissues behaves fully elastic, which would need very long lasting hanging with tens of pounds used as a load.

We are operating at the transitional area between the toe region and the proportional range(elastic range).
It is the zone where tissue drastically stiffens and exponentially resists any additional elongation occurring.
Look what the papers say about non-linear elasticity of the visco-elastic biological tissues and you found the reasoning. Pushing through the stiffening caused by the visco-elastic behavior the cyclical stretching is the way which results the best outcome in given time.

The graph attached shows pretty much the reasoning. If the visco-elastic tissue is loaded it stiffens and it takes time for to relax and lose the resisting force. Releasing the load there is hysteresis which causes the tissue recover slowly to the resting length, Also the more load or with a higher velocity the load is applied the greater is the resisting response.

The graph shows how repeated loading eases the resisting force and how many repetitions is needed to stabilize the behavior. The slow introducing of the force is the superior way to handle visco-elasticity. And if we are going to repeat the loading before the full recovery time we are starting the next loading phase at incrementally longer state each time.

All manual stretching is cyclical or dynamic by it´s nature of course. The timing of the cooldown stretch comes from the combination of the ultrasound studies indicating that there is a 10 minutes window for the stretching after the US application is removed, and secondly from several sources indicating what the graph shows, minimum of ten repetitions is needed to tackle the visco-elasticity induced resistance.

In addition the collagenous tissue is quite different animal if there is therapeutic heat applied or not.

hysteresis.PNG


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

This might be a silly question. I currently pump and use an IR lamp for heat, but that tends to burn the skin without being very effective deeper in (also cools down very fast).

I’m putting together a vacuum hanger and I have a 1mHz US machine. However what I’ve seen of vacuum hanging, there is a silicone sleeve covering a large part of the shaft (just like with my bib hanger the wrapping covers a large area).

My question is - do I focus the US only on the lower part of the shaft that remains uncovered or can I also target the rest through the silicone sleeve? Or do I cut the sleeve shorter which might impact attachment stability?

Originally Posted by sithvicious
This might be a silly question. I currently pump and use an IR lamp for heat, but that tends to burn the skin without being very effective deeper in (also cools down very fast).

I’m putting together a vacuum hanger and I have a 1mHz US machine. However what I’ve seen of vacuum hanging, there is a silicone sleeve covering a large part of the shaft (just like with my bib hanger the wrapping covers a large area).

My question is - do I focus the US only on the lower part of the shaft that remains uncovered or can I also target the rest through the silicone sleeve? Or do I cut the sleeve shorter which might impact attachment stability?

It is relevant question. This has been also discussed before in my log. I am not here to promote the log but most of these questions have been discussed there. Some of them concerning the methods quite deeply already:

“The attenuation can be calculated if we know the acoustic impedance (Z) of the material.
There will be reflection on the boundary of two different medias which causes acoustic attenuation. The greater the difference between acoustic impedances the greater the attenuation resulting on the intensity.

Pure silicon rubber has approximated acoustic impedance of 0.97x10^6( kg/(m2 · s)) and depending on source soft tissues have average of 1.52- 1.63 kgx 10^6/(m2 · s)).

Acoustic attenuation ,a, is calculated by the equation:

(Z_2 - Z_1) ^2 / (Z_1 + Z_2) ^2 = 0.056

So the attenuation for intensity is then 5.6 %

This of course when the boundary of the silicon rubber and the skin is perfectly conducting.”

Meaning if there is a possibility to use conducting gel between the sleeve and shaft and tuning the intensity up it is doable with small loss of US intensity due the acoustic attenuation.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

I am hoping some of the guys using long silicon sleeves giving feedback on this matter.

It is speculative but the conduction might be nearly perfect already vacuum sucking tiny air pockets empty between the shaft and the sleeve.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Thank you for the response! I will check in once I’ve had a chance to test it out with updates. Conductive gel under the sleeve may negatively impact the hanger grip?

I will check out your log with interest.

Have to thank you, Manko and of course the OP Longer Stretch for this thread. This is an absolute goldmine of information

Has anyone looked at the potential of using growth factors or growth hormone to enhance proliferation? For example, by taking 25mg per day of MK-677.

Originally Posted by sentii
Has anyone looked at the potential of using growth factors or growth hormone to enhance proliferation? For example, by taking 25mg per day of MK-677.

Looked yes and with the knowledge at hand not very optimistic about it.

Of all the growth hormone releasing peptide mk -677 is the one least attractive. Passing the blood-brain barrier and binding in to ghrelin receptor everywhere in the brain it does not sound good at all.
And it does that effectively as well, once you start it you are going to feel hungry. It is not because of any positive effect on metabolism but the brain action mentioned.
I would stay away from that peptide.

https://www.longecity.org/forum/top…-dementia-link/


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

SARMS, or peptides, aren’t something I’m interested in. If I was going to go that route I’d just do steroids but in present moment I’m dedicated to remaining “natural”.


My MaxVac Setup Longerstretch's Golf Weight and HTW setup My Log

Starting Size: circa 2003: 5 BPEL x 5.0 MSEG August 2007: 6 2/3 BPEL x 5.5 MSEG 04/22/08: 7.5 BPEL x 5.6 MSEG... On and Off again for a while... 11/25/13: 7.75 BPEL x 5.75 MSEG 08/01/19 BPEL 8.03 x 5.6 10/01/19 BPEL 8.19 x 5.6

After having a 3 month long decon break I’ve been following these principles for a month and a half now, tried different durations and forces for each phase, and have gained literally 0 millimeters of length. That’s far from longerstretch’s rate of 1mm per week.

The strain after a session was never larger than 2% and eventually decreased to 0%, meaning that the pre-session BPFSL reached post-session BPFSL but the post-session BPFSL never increased at all.
After a few rest days the pre-session BPFSL was back to where it was before I started.

It’s safe to say that these methods don’t provide growth for everyone. Something is missing.

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
Looked yes and with the knowledge at hand not very optimistic about it.

Of all the growth hormone releasing peptide mk -677 is the one least attractive. Passing the blood-brain barrier and binding in to ghrelin receptor everywhere in the brain it does not sound good at all.
And it does that effectively as well, once you start it you are going to feel hungry. It is not because of any positive effect on metabolism but the brain action mentioned.
I would stay away from that peptide.

https://www.longecity.org/forum/top…-dementia-link/

Ok I will look at that on MK-677. HGH has a reputation for being terribly expensive. But when I look at non-bodybuilder level dosages (i.e. not insane doses) it actually doesnt seem THAT terrible these days. Maybe ~150 euro/usd per month for something that has other benefits as well. Have you not been interested in HGH at all either?

Originally Posted by mercuryarms
After having a 3 month long decon break I’ve been following these principles for a month and a half now, tried different durations and forces for each phase, and have gained literally 0 millimeters of length. That’s far from longerstretch’s rate of 1mm per week.

The strain after a session was never larger than 2% and eventually decreased to 0%, meaning that the pre-session BPFSL reached post-session BPFSL but the post-session BPFSL never increased at all.
After a few rest days the pre-session BPFSL was back to where it was before I started.

It’s safe to say that these methods don’t provide growth for everyone. Something is missing.

Surely something is missing with any method if not gaining even 1 mm in 1-2 months. For this one most likely.
We can not say how many non-responders will occur but at the moment there are enough initial responders to keep evolving with the concept.
I don´t know what will be successful 4 out of 5 gaining or what.

Surely you can have all the backing you need but one thing we can´t do is to be there to do the actual job.
I still think that your heat cycle is not effective enough and that affects the heated stretch and therefor the cooldown stretch as well.
Let´s chew it back to pieces and go for another round?


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by sentii
Ok I will look at that on MK-677. HGH has a reputation for being terribly expensive. But when I look at non-bodybuilder level dosages (i.e. not insane doses) it actually doesnt seem THAT terrible these days. Maybe ~150 euro/usd per month for something that has other benefits as well. Have you not been interested in HGH at all either?

No I am not interested I have had my share on those substances earlier in my life using 4IU to 20 IU per day. To have any significant effect the GH dosing should be at bodybuilder level. That´s why GHRH and GHRP are out of the interests as well IMO. It is not the GH which is beneficial for the penile growth but the IGF-1.

To raise IGF-1 level significantly with the GH the dosages are minimum of 3-4 times the replacement or anti-aging dosages. For me there is no safe option available to consider unless injecting IGF-1 straight into corpus cavernosum. And not considering that either at the moment.. And it is good for the health and the wallet.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

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