Using the ultrasound for therapeutic heat in PE

Thanks igigi!!

I do have another somewhat unrelated question. I am an avid weightlifter and I just ordered some products to make injectable L-Carnitine as a lot of my bodybuilding friends recommend it, so I just googled it to see how it may help the PE. I actually found some interesting information. First, Carnitine is one of the most recommended treatments for Peyronie’s disease as it has been observed to greatly reduced the fibrous plaque build up. It has also been shown to boost fertility and sex drive. But, second, I found one study showing that Carnitine inhibits the proliferation of vascular smooth muscle cells. This study was in the context of cardiac hypertrophy/cardiovascular disease, but it concerned me enough to ask you guys what you think, since if I’m not mistaken it is precisely "proliferation of vascular smooth muscle" that we are after. Here’s a link.

Acetyl L-Carnitine Can Help Straighten Your Penis | Life Enhancement Products

Yeah, you are right as any clearly pro-apoptosis anti-proliferative substance does ring a bell. But those features has been seen in traumatic environment I suppose. If the effect is the same in healthy tissues I really haven´t studied further. As long as you are not injecting it to your penis it should be a success bodybuilding wise that I do know for sure. Bioavaibility of orally administered carnitine is really poor and is basically worthless to consume.

We would like to keep this thread relating to ultrasound treatment only. There is plenty of room elsewhere for anything not related

Thoughts on focusing the US on the ligaments ? Those are supposed to be an area where quick/easy gains can come

Risky business. I have been wondering the same. Trying to push the transducer as close as possible to the base, and wondering about any way to hit the ligaments. But you are getting close to testicles, prostate, veins, ducts, etc.

I guess by hanging straight down, a 3mhz device would work around the base on the dorsal side ONLY.

Actually I have find it relatively easy operating OTL leaning backwards comfortably at sofa.. Suspensory ligament being easy as the ultrasonic front reflects back from the pubic bone.
Having loose sacks with lot more skin than inner filler eases to maneuver being able to avoid the testicles.
Even the both roots, penile cruz, can be heated to some extend putting the transducer as sideways as possible, not aiming the beam inside the body.

Do not aim the ultrasonic front´t towards testicles, abdomen wall, prostate or anus.

The ultrasonic beam propagates as collimated front perpendicular to the transducer head flat surface.
1 MHz ultrasound has been absorbed to tissue with 50% of its energy at depth of 5 cm, 3Mhz ultrasound at 2.5-3cm.
Therefor we need to take in consideration the rest of the energy as well, the beam reaches much deeper attenuating steeply as it penetrates.

There is risks involved but carefully applying it is doable. Remembering all the time what we are doing.

That’s awesome Kyrpa, I found myself at the same position while lying back wondering if I should go deeper and target the ligaments. I usually go all the way back to the base pushing back the scrotum skin with the transducer to heat the deep base of the penis. Always sideways of course.

The only reason why I did not go deeper to the ligaments, is because of my lack of anatomy knowledge to identify the correct position of the vas deferens and veins in the way.

I’m wondering about how you guys are hanging in these positions. I tried over the leg yesterday but the fact the penis rests on the leg seems to both greatly reduced the force generated by the weight and also pull the sheath up and off too.

Also, I’ve had an ultrasound done directly on my testicles in the hospital several times, as I had a recurring infection there a while back. They didn’t mention anything about a risk when the ultrasound was applied directly to the testicle, let alone indirectly. And these scans usually lasted 20-30 minutes.

Scans use some milliwatts of intenstity in short bursts, with physiotherapy application in our case uses 6.4 watts with continuos apply (1.6w/cm^2) .
And there are risks even using the scanner, they have considered it to be minor though.

The difference is light years of energy put into tissue. Both use ultrasonic waves but the commonalty end there.
In scanning very light burst of soundwaves is propagated into tissue and the rebound reflection creates a picture.
In therapical application that much energy is propagated into tissue that the energy is absorbed into tissue making it to heat up several degrees.

I really suggest you to read more and then read some more before starting anything with the apllication.

Insrtead of weight using a elastic workout band with digital hanging scale eases the load apply. With actual weight a pulley would ease you a lot.

So as long as the applicator is not pointed directly at the testicles (whether through other tissues or not), it should be fine?

That will be very good starting point already.
It is up to you to decide whether or not it should be fine.

If you take the precautions seriously and understand the nature of the application it should help the decision.

After all these treatments have been used for decades on therapy applications.
Mostly by trained professionals, but I can guarantee not in every case.
We can be sure that the training for the application is not much better in majority of the cases, that you can learn from hear.

Medical community consider ultrasound therapy as low risk, and low reward application as well.
They just haven’t used it on penis that much on regular basis.

Awesome

I ordered a US PRO 2000 2nd gen and a 5 liter container of gel.

I was thinking of just using the vacuum hanger but after reading more from your log about the heat making blisters easier, I might switch to the home made bib hanger I have instead

Vacuum hanger in general is prone to cause blisters when used longer than 50 minutes a time with these 2- 3.5 kg loads.
Guys using IR lamps are even more at risk. The vacuum cup should not be heated. In fact it should be cooled somehow during.

I have never been able to wear the vacuum cup for the cooldown part. Thats partly the reason I have proceeded the cooldown with manual stretches for 10 minutes instead.

Oh well I can do 5lbs on the vacuum hanger for a couple hours under heat lamp already

TESTICULAR SAFETY ISSUES

There have been some discussion about the potential adverse effects of ultrasound had the testicles been exposed to it.

Every ultrasound manual and safety instruction tells not to use ultrasound on reproductive organs.
Main Safety Notions

Testes will be affected of ultrasound exposure thats for sure. If the risk in our application is real avoiding any direct exposure remains unknown.

The direct exposure levels needed to cause infertility would be that large I can´t see it happening without being intended.
Have the indirect cumulative exposure enough potential to lower spermatogenesis and weaken the spermcount in long run we don´t know.
For the risk management we can have an influence using the application in responsible manner and keeping the application times and occasions as low as possible.

It is possible that the direct exposure of the ultrasound wavefront can cause infertility in a spectrum of reversible to permanent.

In several animal models, including rats, monkeys, cats and dogs the one 15min treatment for testicles with 1 MHz 1-2 w/cm^2 can cause reversible infertility for six months. With a more treatments it is possible to cause even permanent infertility.
The testosterone levels being normal after the treatment suggest that the ultrasound does not affect the Leydig cells though.
Similar results had been seen from men exposed to US in the attached study.

Therefor we need to respect the safety protocol , testicles should not be exposed to the propagating wavefront.
The possibility for reflections should be taken in account as well.
Heating at the penile cruzes or at the base the transducer should be pointed away from the testicles.
Avoiding the exposure of scrotum should be safer as well, minimizing the reflective exposure on testes.

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