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Using the ultrasound for therapeutic heat in PE

Originally Posted by Sensei891
Hi djrobins,

Kyrpa have done some trials for girth-specific workouts. Including US heat with clamping.

As per now it seems bundled stretches have provided the best results so far.

I have done a couple of weeks trial with US clamping(dual setup with US2000 1MHz)
Aprox 106-107% expansion. But unfortunately the temperature are not consistent above therapeutic levels during the session.

I’m uncertain if there are any trials with 3MHz equipment.

Cheers

Does your 106% to 107% expansion mean an additional 6-7% over clamping without US heat?

Originally Posted by djrobins
Does your 106% to 107% expansion mean an additional 6-7% over clamping without US heat?

Hi djrobins,

Yes.
The initial expansion happens with a heated pump during stress relaxation, and remaining expansion are forced with clamps.

My last measurements have been fluctuating between 0+3mm. However as there has been fluctuation I can’t confirm any EG increases. Flaccid seems to keep up though.

But as mentioned, this protocol is probably not viable with my current setup. Still needs development and inputs from other forum members.
For my next protocol I will either go for bundled stretches or invest in 3MHz equipment to understand if that could benefit the process.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Sensei891
Hi djrobins,

Yes.
The initial expansion happens with a heated pump during stress relaxation, and remaining expansion are forced with clamps.

My last measurements have been fluctuating between 0+3mm. However as there has been fluctuation I can’t confirm any EG increases. Flaccid seems to keep up though.

But as mentioned, this protocol is probably not viable with my current setup. Still needs development and inputs from other forum members.
For my next protocol I will either go for bundled stretches or invest in 3MHz equipment to understand if that could benefit the process.

Cheers

What is 3Mhz going to give that 1Mhz doesn’t give? I thought the guys heavily into the US heating protocols said that 1Mhz was sufficient for what we are doing?

Originally Posted by djrobins
What is 3Mhz going to give that 1Mhz doesn’t give? I thought the guys heavily into the US heating protocols said that 1Mhz was sufficient for what we are doing?

Sufficient, yes. Fully trialed and tested yet alone perfect for girth? There is not bullet proof method for girth protocol yet.
Aiming for the tunica only 3 MHz may turn out to be better , who knows before we have tons of experience.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Kyrpa or Sensei, do you think it would be beneficial to use the US when fully erect since you would be providing the stress for expansion outwardly from the internal natural source while heating with the US to get the collagen to remodel? I was thinking of trying this with clamping, jelqing or girth squeezes (obviously 1 handed). I ordered a US Pro 2000 and I’m going to use it after some more research but just wanted your opinions since you’ve got experience with it. Thanks

I have a couple of safety questions. I apologize in advance if this feels redundant, but I feel I’ve read conflicting information on this.

1. Is it dangerous for the testicles to be exposed to US? If so, it seems like using US near the base of the penis would be very difficult.
2. What are safe exposure times? Both session and daily cumulative? I’ve seen reports of people doing one 12 minutes session in a day, while other are doing multiple 1.5 hour sessions.

Thanks!

My test for measuring the temperature inside the penis during therapy.

Everyone is already familiar with the results of temperature measurements of manko007 and Kyrpa’s, so I will do without further ADO. This will just be another confirmation of the results of these guys.

Method.
The room temperature was set to 24°C on the thermal sensor of the Underfloor heating and maintained for 3 days to stabilize, and accepted as the average, comfortable room temperature. An ultrasonic transducer with an intensity of 1.6 W/cm2 is used as a heating device. The area of the transmitter head is 4.0 cm2. Initially, tests with temperature measurements were already conducted for themselves, but they were not documented. The end of the steel thermocouple was insulated with heat shrink on Kyrpa’s advice. The incoming K-type thermocouple signal was displayed on a multimeter with a temperature processing error of ± 0.1%. The measuring point is located at a distance of 9 cm from the edge of the head, medially on the trunk of the penis. In the heating experiment, the penis was placed in a Penimaster Chrome extender for stretching and a support was created for the entire if in the form of the hand of my mistress assistant. The test procedure was carried out as a demonstrative copy of a typical heat cycle, however, this is just a copy of the results of Kyrpa’s-the penis is stretched out to the sides, laying on the naked, shaved flesh of the thigh. The transducer head is applied ventrally, sending deep-penetrating ultrasonic waves with a frequency of 1 MHz to the dorsal side. To document the results, we used two fixed cameras on a smartphone in video mode (for safety reasons). During installation, the measurement results were read and entered into the table every 5 seconds from the start of therapy.

Results.
Test results are documented at 5-second intervals. I always start my heating from the place that I need, I do not heat the entire trunk at once. Initially, the temperature rise is low both on the multimeter display and on subjective feelings. Struggled to exceed the 39°C threshold as did Kyrpa’s in its test. I was hampered by many things: problems with equipment, gel and assistant. The therapeutic level was maintained from the 8th minute, this is a very fast speed and is close to the studies of the other two. When the transmitter is removed from the heated hearth for 10 seconds, temperature drops are visible. There are also peak temperatures that mean the delay of the transmitter in one place near the tip of the thermocouple, otherwise you might already know this.

Conclusion.

It is obvious that moving the transmitter or a sharp change in the beam path can cause sharp temperature drops of up to 1-3°If you don’t follow the technique, I can confirm it for myself. In fact, you need to keep all your concentration on the penis and the device. Maintaining the entire trunk at a therapeutic temperature throughout the session is challenging. Using a secondary heat source may help, but it still doesn’t rule out instantaneous drops, as other studies have shown.
The results point to similarities found in the Manco and Kirpa tests. The heat produced at a frequency of 1 MHz in the penis shaft tended to fluctuate greatly in the guys, and I went quite smoothly, but I gave myself as much as possible to the surface of the penis. Peaks and lows occur for the effect and heat distribution. Also, at 43+°C, pain is constantly present, protein denaturation and destruction of the incipient covalent bonds of young collagen obviously occurred. Similarly, the resting temperature of at least my if is 32.5°C, which means that therapeutic temperatures for me are reached by gaining as much as 9-10°C additional degrees. But to be honest, all my limbs were cold from some fear.

Attached Images
On Thander temperature.png
(137.9 KB, 34 views)

Originally Posted by The Dane
I have a couple of safety questions. I apologize in advance if this feels redundant, but I feel I’ve read conflicting information on this.

1. Is it dangerous for the testicles to be exposed to US? If so, it seems like using US near the base of the penis would be very difficult.
2. What are safe exposure times? Both session and daily cumulative? I’ve seen reports of people doing one 12 minutes session in a day, while other are doing multiple 1.5 hour sessions.

Thanks!

1. You simply can not point the transducer head towards the testicles, prostate or anus . Keeping the head pointed away you can operate at the base. There are multiple ways for getting the testicles out of way with your hand or cockring ets.
The soundwave beam propagates in collided form straightforwards not radially all over. The reflection is formed when the sound front hits pubic bone or the opposite site of the shaft and depending on the angle bounces on each direction but they are quick to attenuate.

2. Despite the decades of use in physiotherapy there are no proper guidance for maximal daily, weekly or monthly exposure times.
The temperature exposure time safety limitations and the source for these notes are presented in this thread.

In physiotherapy these applications are used in various protocols. Looking for studies there the upper limit for singular session have been found to be 30 minutes at time. If some one is applying US in his penis 1,5 hours a day it is because on hazardous ignorance and should be stopped immediately.

Also in practice these applications are used from one time a week to daily use during weeks or months.

As a conclusion of what I do know based on my time spend looking into this, while official guidance lacking we shouldn´t use longer sessions than we can find studied in the literature, no more than one session a day, not using it daily and limiting the use in no longer than 6-10 weeks periods. No clue whatsoever how long we should keep away from it or should at all.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Thank you for your valuable contribution S.N.R

Great basic study confirming former trials.

Originally Posted by S.N.R
Also, at 43+°C, pain is constantly present, protein denaturation and destruction of the incipient covalent bonds of young collagen obviously occurred. Similarly, the resting temperature of at least my if is 32.5°C, which means that therapeutic temperatures for me are reached by gaining as much as 9-10°C additional degrees. But to be honest, all my limbs were cold from some fear.

Any denaturation cannot be confirmed. The exposure time under given temperature is proportional to the cellular damage . The exhaustive study is linked in this thread. With a conciderable certainty few seconds under 45C is not going to denature proteins or cause cellular damage.

Safety guide for exposure time under given temperature.

T (°C)___t (sec)___T (°F)
46,0 _____7,5 ____114,8
45,5 ____10,6____113,9
45,0 ____15,0____113,0
44,5 _____21,5____112,1
44,0 ____30,7____111,2
43,5 ____42,5____110,3
43,0 _____59,0____109,4
42,5 ____119,0____108,5
42,0 ____238,0____107,6
41 5 ____ 476,0____106,7
41,0 ____ 950,0____105,8
40,5 ____1897,0____104,9
40,0 ____3785,0____104,0


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)


Last edited by Kyrpa : 10-30-2020 at .

Originally Posted by S.N.R
Also, at 43+°C, pain is constantly present, protein denaturation and destruction of the incipient covalent bonds of young collagen obviously occurred. Similarly, the resting temperature of at least my if is 32.5°C,

Please collaborate if you have studies pointing this out. In vivo situation and for collagen type I . In vitro, acidic solutions or any other than living connective tissue is another thing.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
Thank you for your valuable contribution S.N.R

Great basic study confirming former trials.

Any denaturation cannot be confirmed. The exposure time under given temperature is proportional to the cellular damage . The exhaustive study is linked in this thread. With a conciderable certainty few seconds under 45C is not going to denature proteins or cause cellular damage.

Safety guide for exposure time under given temperature.

T (°C)___t (sec)___T (°F)
46,0 _____7,5 ____114,8
45,5 ____10,6____113,9
45,0 ____15,0____113,0
44,5 _____21,5____112,1
44,0 ____30,7____111,2
43,5 ____42,5____110,3
43,0 _____59,0____109,4
42,5 ____119,0____108,5
42,0 ____238,0____107,6
41 5 ____ 476,0____106,7
41,0 ____ 950,0____105,8
40,5 ____1897,0____104,9
40,0 ____3785,0____104,0

Very good information. Does anyone have the time it takes for the temperature to drop without the US? For example you heated to 44C, how long to get to 40C?

Originally Posted by djrobins
Very good information. Does anyone have the time it takes for the temperature to drop without the US? For example you heated to 44C, how long to get to 40C?

Links provided in the first page of this thread. I suggest to dig deep on the graphs.

The initial drop is huge in the first 30 seconds to one minute. Then the decay has slowly decreasing thrend.

And the temperature settles at higher level than prior the exercise up to 30 minutes.
The body has automous thermoregulatory system in place which kicks in after 10 minutes of heating or so .
Thats why it is very hard to raise the mean temperature to dangerous level with moderate intensity application.

1mhz vs 3mhz cooldown.JPG
decayC.JPG


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)


Last edited by Kyrpa : 10-30-2020 at .

Kyrpa, I wanted to say that everything above 43 degrees is felt as if some tissue begins to melt, there is a specific pain that is difficult to convey in words. If I’m not mistaken, the idea of denaturing new collagen bonds was prompted by Tutt’s reasoning.

From interesting things, for users. After overcoming the threshold of 41 degrees, the further increase in temperature in the real scenario is very fast, I can jump from 41 degrees to 44 in just 30-40 seconds, if the concentration is on a relatively small area of the penis (~2x2 cm). And at a high temperature, pain is very clearly felt. After such concentrated, hot workouts, I have ~3% deformation on average always.

Originally Posted by S.N.R
From interesting things, for users. After overcoming the threshold of 41 degrees, the further increase in temperature in the real scenario is very fast, I can jump from 41 degrees to 44 in just 30-40 seconds, if the concentration is on a relatively small area of the penis (~2x2 cm). And at a high temperature, pain is very clearly felt. After such concentrated, hot workouts, I have ~3% deformation on average always.

Interesting! Thank’s for that experiment. I highly appreciate it. This knowledge can be used, for example for fulcrum hanging, targeting the fulcrum area specifically. I would wait for that, though, until after a series of programs and seeing that there is hardly any gain left. The less intensity that you still get gains with the better. Having said that, the higher temperature the less trauma so maybe it might still make sense to use fulcrum hanging earlier. Not so sure about it.


11.01.2006: BPEL: 17,3 cm (6,8 inches), EG: 13,5 cm (5,3 inches)

03.11.2011: BPEL: 20,5 cm (8,1 inches), EG: 16 cm (6,3 inches)

-- For people who stopped gaining length --> The Long Game: Learning with Longerstretch, Key Principles to Make Sustained Growth -- Progress log: Wurst's progress log --

Originally Posted by S.N.R
Kyrpa, I wanted to say that everything above 43 degrees is felt as if some tissue begins to melt, there is a specific pain that is difficult to convey in words. If I’m not mistaken, the idea of denaturing new collagen bonds was prompted by Tutt’s reasoning.
From interesting things, for users. After overcoming the threshold of 41 degrees, the further increase in temperature in the real scenario is very fast, I can jump from 41 degrees to 44 in just 30-40 seconds, if the concentration is on a relatively small area of the penis (~2x2 cm). And at a high temperature, pain is very clearly felt. After such concentrated, hot workouts, I have ~3% deformation on average always.

“Pain”, is it worse than rice sock being too hot? Thought the US heats inside more? How long does it take to get to 44C? How much length of the shift is heated to near 44C?

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