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Using the ultrasound for therapeutic heat in PE

Originally Posted by Sensei891
Gentlemen,

First of all I want to thank all the contributors on this forum for giving me the tools to push foward with PE.

I’ve been lurking around these forums for quite some time, especially surrounding the threads regarding US as an aid for PE. And I finally decided to create an user and now putting out my first post. Hopefully some of my data would help the process further and for me to receive some guidance on my further process.

My setup for the moment is quite simple. I’m running on 2pcs US2000, analog fishing scale tied to a desk, Pmpro vacuum bell, outdoor thermometer for temp control, Rice sock for stress relax.
The session itself are :Stress relaxation 15 min external heat (1.5kg), US heat 20min (3kg), cold stretch 10 min.

I’ve attached my progress, as there were some issues with copy/paste excel data.

So based on the numbers my strain rate are nowhere near the suggested optimal level on 2.3%? Strain. However I’m ticking in an increase after each session. Total lenght increase are BPFSL +1.5cm and BPEL +1.9cm after 14 sessions with the US assisted PE.

Lessons learned so far:
- invest in a proper vacuum bell for the glans(Ebay copies provides slippages, edema and pain)
- Use more gel than you think is necessary
- Be sure to control temperature
- cold stretch should not be done with vacuum attachment

Upgrades to my existing setup would be the following:
- Thermometer and data logger to provide constant condition updates and historical figures.
- Rebuild vacuum bell to be used with vacuum-press with gauge.
- Digital scale to improve load control

Now to my questions:
- What might be the issue regarding the strain rate? Each US-session last 20 minutes, whereas 12-13 minutes of the session I’m averaging on 41 degrees Celsius. If I’m going over 3.6-3.8 kg there are development of edema just below frenulum so increasing weight is probably not correct for me at this stage. If I’m not mistaken the optimal strain rate are based on data from some of the forum members? Such as Kyrpa, Manko, etc. Would it be wise trying to chase these numbers at all?
- Should I spend more time during stress relaxation? Not showing too much of an alteration in pre-heat vs post stress relaxation.

Thank you all again, and please forgive my English as this is not my native language.

Came to my mind that its probably worth mentioning that the numbers which are provided are in centimeters, and not inches.

Sorry about that!

Originally Posted by Stixman
After a US cool down under tension, has anyone tried using ice cold water to further attempt to cement some of the gains, while still under tension.

In general for PE, I have searched a bit and found that some like cold pumping. Some like a post PE heated warm down to get freshly oxygenated blood circulating and then switch to cold compressed or ice cold water in attempts to cement the gains.

We are always taught the R.I.C.E. procedure as basic first aid for strains and trauma, to prevent swelling. PE is trauma.

Rest
Ice
Compression
Elevation

Very interested to hear more feedback on this.

(When I read these threads I feel like I am binge watching an amazing TV show.)

There is evidence enough that the usage of cold after heat induced elongation, can cancel all the achieved results.
Stick with the natural temperature decay after heated stretch.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by igigi
I believe this topic was touched at some point at Kyrpa’s thread.

However, yes, PE has always been trauma, but it shouldn’t. And that is one of the key points of this US approach. Trauma comes with inflammation. And inflammation leads to toughening of the tissues which is what we need to avoid at all costs.

The purpose of the US therapy is to keep the tension high enough to provide a controlled strain, but NEVER to cause inflammation. This is not the same process we use to exercise skeletal muscle in which that trauma in the muscle fibers make them grow bigger and stronger. In this case of the Septum, trauma wont make it grow bigger, but it will grow stronger. Not the ideal approach.

By keeping trauma and inflammation away from the septum, we are allowing a re-organization of the collagen and elastin fibers of this connective tissue which leads to this bigger elasticity/size.

Igigi said all the necessary already, but in the top of that I like to add that there are studies indicating that even in Grade 2 sprains, it is possible that the markers for inflammatory response are absent.
And because of that the rehabilitation process can start pretty much at the remodelling phase with sub-failure damages.

Further on , using the ultrasound we are minimizing or cancelling the inflammatory response by allowing even major elongation to happen without causing any trauma. The heat allows to mold the collagenous tissue without trauma. Ultrasound itself can accelerate the remodelling of the ECM , which leave us in the win- win situation.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
There is evidence enough that the usage of cold after heat induced elongation, can cancel all the achieved results.
Stick with the natural temperature decay after heated stretch.

Thank You.

I will most certainly Circle back and read your full thread, and those of others who have worked with US.

For now, I am still a Newbie. I have learned a lot but still want to stick with the newbie routine, water/air pumping, the cock coil and a little bit of traction extending till the end of the year. Early next year I want to start compression hanging. Maybe dabble in some cable clamping in the 2nd quarter of the new year. After this, I think US would make more sense.
Maybe I can bring US next Summer? What do you think?


Starting (07/15/20): BPEL 6.5” BPFSL 6.5” MSEG 4.75” BEG 4.75” BPFL 4.5”

Current (10/27/20): BPEL 7.0” BPFSL 7.5” MSEG 5.0”+ BEG 5.25” BPFL 5.25-5.75”

Goal: BPEL 7.5” MSEG 5.5” BEG 6.0” BPFL 6.5”

Originally Posted by Stixman
Thank You.

I will most certainly Circle back and read your full thread, and those of others who have worked with US.

For now, I am still a Newbie. I have learned a lot but still want to stick with the newbie routine, water/air pumping, the cock coil and a little bit of traction extending till the end of the year. Early next year I want to start compression hanging. Maybe dabble in some cable clamping in the 2nd quarter of the new year. After this, I think US would make more sense.
Maybe I can bring US next Summer? What do you think?

Hi Stix,

You are shoving healthy thinking right there. Keep the thing simple and stick with the conventional low force applications as long as they seem to work. And most importantly you and every other newbie needs to learn to read the PI´s and s t u d y the reasoning behind all what they are doing.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by igigi
currently just using one of those cheap thermometers from a pharmacy. Its accurate in data, but very unreliable for monitoring. I will acquire soon one with multiple thermocouples so I can measure and monitor multiple points at the same time. I believe that would be the best way. Secure each thermocouple to the thin skin that is flush with the septum at 3 or 4 different point along the shaft. That would allow us to distribute the heat evenly.

Hey igigi

Thanks for this - I had a quick look for thermometers with multiple sensors. Did you already locate a good model you’d think of getting? If and when you do can you let us know?


Start: 6" BPEL x 5" EG (mid)

Current: 7.562" BPEL x 5.56" EG (mid, near glans) x 6.25" EG (base)

Goal: 8.5" BPEL x 6.2" EG (whole shaft)

Originally Posted by pudd1ng
At the moment I feel one us is enough, otl with rice sock between shaft and leg and penis twisted so you use the device head on the ventral side so it’s reaching the cord on the dorsal side. This seems to give a better heat and faster for me personally.

When using a fulcrum I find irl superior for this. The shaft is spread so thin across the fulcrum I feel the irl penatrates realy well.

Hi Pudd1ng

So just to say that like you I added a heated rice sock today between shaft and thigh to help maintain temperatures. Time will tell but I think it helps keep the temperature - I was thinking it would have been more effective for US waves to pass through when shaft is directly in contact with thigh skin, but I could feel the heat keep coming through to the thigh OK so I’ll continue like this. I also have an IR lamp not far away to keep air temperature higher.

Anyone else using a rice sock under the shaft?


Start: 6" BPEL x 5" EG (mid)

Current: 7.562" BPEL x 5.56" EG (mid, near glans) x 6.25" EG (base)

Goal: 8.5" BPEL x 6.2" EG (whole shaft)

Originally Posted by waterman888
Hey igigi

Thanks for this - I had a quick look for thermometers with multiple sensors. Did you already locate a good model you’d think of getting? If and when you do can you let us know?

There are affordable four channel thermometers with k-type thermocouples available. The downside is the accuracy.
Putting a little bit more on price you can have two channel versions with a better accuracy.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
There are affordable four channel thermometers with k-type thermocouples available. The downside is the accuracy.
Putting a little bit more on price you can have two channel versions with a better accuracy.

OK nice, can you give me an example Kyrpa? I might try to get one…


Start: 6" BPEL x 5" EG (mid)

Current: 7.562" BPEL x 5.56" EG (mid, near glans) x 6.25" EG (base)

Goal: 8.5" BPEL x 6.2" EG (whole shaft)

One other thing for this thread: manual stretching.

I am stress-relax-stretching with a PMP at 1.1kg only (but for 60-90 mins), but then I’m doing the US part using manual stretch, followed by post-US stretch also as hard manual stretch. I know what 3-4kg and 8-9kg manual pull feels like (measured on scales) for these second two parts, and I get very good grip using liquid chalk on the glans. But just wondering if anyone else is doing the US stretch manually? I did try the BiB before but it’s so clunky, digs in the thigh, numbs the glans and reduces shaft to heat that I gave up on it.


Start: 6" BPEL x 5" EG (mid)

Current: 7.562" BPEL x 5.56" EG (mid, near glans) x 6.25" EG (base)

Goal: 8.5" BPEL x 6.2" EG (whole shaft)

Originally Posted by waterman888
One other thing for this thread: manual stretching.

I am stress-relax-stretching with a PMP at 1.1kg only (but for 60-90 mins), but then I’m doing the US part using manual stretch, followed by post-US stretch also as hard manual stretch. I know what 3-4kg and 8-9kg manual pull feels like (measured on scales) for these second two parts, and I get very good grip using liquid chalk on the glans. But just wondering if anyone else is doing the US stretch manually? I did try the BiB before but it’s so clunky, digs in the thigh, numbs the glans and reduces shaft to heat that I gave up on it.

The reason many of us do not stretch manually, is due to the fact that the force is somewhat variable and unmeasured. The hand is also not able to be used so it’s impossible to do anything with that hand used for stretching. In hindsight, I guess you can watch TV or listen to audio. Stretching also takes an effort, so the hand will get tired, using the hand limits time.

An ADS unit will maintain a certain amount of force over time and give you use of both hands. So it’s not about one method being better.

A side benefit of hands is one can do it anywhere without any special tools. When I was more heavily into my PE regiment, I followed taking a bowel movement with 5-10 minutes of stretching while on the toilet. It was a daily habit or twice a day.

I don’t want to bad talk the Bib, which was an awesome PE tool for it’s time, but the same reasons as you discovered… The vacuum head attached stretchers subject more of the shaft length to stretching forces.

Originally Posted by djrobins
The reason many of us do not stretch manually, is due to the fact that the force is somewhat variable and unmeasured. The hand is also not able to be used so it’s impossible to do anything with that hand used for stretching. In hindsight, I guess you can watch TV or listen to audio. Stretching also takes an effort, so the hand will get tired, using the hand limits time.

An ADS unit will maintain a certain amount of force over time and give you use of both hands. So it’s not about one method being better.

A side benefit of hands is one can do it anywhere without any special tools. When I was more heavily into my PE regiment, I followed taking a bowel movement with 5-10 minutes of stretching while on the toilet. It was a daily habit or twice a day.

I don’t want to bad talk the Bib, which was an awesome PE tool for it’s time, but the same reasons as you discovered… The vacuum head attached stretchers subject more of the shaft length to stretching forces.

Thanks for that - my manual stretching is only during US (12-15 mins) and afterwards (10 mins). I have a strong grip and forearm strength so not an issue for me, and with liquid chalk I get excellent grip. But as you say, the pull is variable. The issue I have with say using the PMP vac head to pull at a known rate is the risk of blisters for me (has happened a couple of times at 3-4kg pull and then out of action for many weeks), but more annoyingly it’s the fact that I use lube to get into the vac head which then has to be washed off the glans before chalking up for the post-US pull (all the time of which the shaft is cooling down)….


Start: 6" BPEL x 5" EG (mid)

Current: 7.562" BPEL x 5.56" EG (mid, near glans) x 6.25" EG (base)

Goal: 8.5" BPEL x 6.2" EG (whole shaft)

Originally Posted by waterman888
Thanks for that - my manual stretching is only during US (12-15 mins) and afterwards (10 mins). I have a strong grip and forearm strength so not an issue for me, and with liquid chalk I get excellent grip. But as you say, the pull is variable. The issue I have with say using the PMP vac head to pull at a known rate is the risk of blisters for me, and also the fact that I use lube to get into the vac head which then has to be washed off the glans before chalking up for the post-US pull (all the time of which the shaft is cooling down)….

Blisters suck. I occasionally got them early in my PE game. Excessive time in the vacuum head is what causes them. Early in my PE career time had to be limited to 20-30 minutes or else blisters could form. Today I can stay in the vacuum head 1.5 hrs with no sign of Blisters.

Your method combining manual stretching with US heat sounds great.

Originally Posted by waterman888
Hi Pudd1ng

So just to say that like you I added a heated rice sock today between shaft and thigh to help maintain temperatures. Time will tell but I think it helps keep the temperature - I was thinking it would have been more effective for US waves to pass through when shaft is directly in contact with thigh skin, but I could feel the heat keep coming through to the thigh OK so I’ll continue like this. I also have an IR lamp not far away to keep air temperature higher.

Anyone else using a rice sock under the shaft?

I did when I was operating with one transducer only.
You need to have lots of conductive gel around where you can dip the transducer head occasionally to cool it down.

If running with the additional heating elements the head itself may overheat and cut the wavefront as a concequency.

Several systems have this self-protective feature build in, cutting off at 42C (US Pro), and continuing when the temp goes below 40C.

You don’t need that to happen, so keep the apparatus cool enough.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
I did when I was operating with one transducer only.
You need to have lots of conductive gel around where you can dip the transducer head occasionally to cool it down.

If running with the additional heating elements the head itself may overheat and cut the wavefront as a concequency.

Several systems have this self-protective feature build in, cutting off at 42C (US Pro), and continuing when the temp goes below 40C.

You don’t need that to happen, so keep the apparatus cool enough.

OK thanks, will be keeping my eye on that then….


Start: 6" BPEL x 5" EG (mid)

Current: 7.562" BPEL x 5.56" EG (mid, near glans) x 6.25" EG (base)

Goal: 8.5" BPEL x 6.2" EG (whole shaft)

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