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Using the ultrasound for therapeutic heat in PE

Originally Posted by Trapezius
Anyone mind answering this. What’s the reason you guys remove springs?

Search for the term “Stress Relaxation”.

If we pull our dicks out and hold it at that position, without applying additional tugging force, we then relax into this fixed position stretch. This is “Stress Relaxation”.

The use of springs will continue to extend the stretch further (aka: “creep”). The springs do not allow for a fixed stretch to be held.
Since the distance stretched out increases and creeps to a further and further stretch, our dicks do not get to relax and instead could potentially have an adverse reaction and tense up to fight the added force applied.


Starting (07/15/20): BPEL 6.5” BPFSL 6.5” MSEG 4.75” BEG 4.75” BPFL 4.5”

Current (10/27/20): BPEL 7.0” BPFSL 7.5” MSEG 5.0”+ BEG 5.25” BPFL 5.25-5.75”

Goal: BPEL 7.5” MSEG 5.5” BEG 6.0” BPFL 6.5”

I finally made it through a sufficient amount of these threads regarding US to feel it’s time to comment.

I was around here many many years ago, identified that I have the dreaded steel cord, and never gained length despite using contact heat and 10+ hours per week of 5lb+ vacuum hanging for a few months. Did gain 3/4” of total career girth though. After a very long hiatus, I’ve been doing light jelqs/clamps off and on for 5-10 minutes most days in the shower, for about 9 months now, with maybe a 1/4” of new girth.

Now that I have free time to dedicate (this is nearly a part time job), I wanted to give hanging another go at 3-6 hours per day, so I started with 2-4 kg 10 days ago (Aug 7th) without heat .. And then I came across the new information here. The level of research and experimentation put forth by Kyrpa, Tutt (and a few others), is phenomenal.

So I ordered the additional equipment, took a few days off, and now have 2 days with IR/US. Figure I might as well describe my setup, and hopefully contribute to data collection here.

EQUIPMENT

- Autoextender Vachanger3, medium size, deep cylinder
- 660nm and 850nm (both bulbs simultaneously lit), 36 watts (can put inches from penis)
- US Pro 2000 2nd Edition
- Water filled Ziploc for US absorption (about 4-5cm thick)
- Pulley system
- Cable clamp

SETUP

Hanger - I fill the cylinder with *water*, as I have much better results with no blisters this way. I am prone to edema, so I tape somewhat vigorously. If I had known I’d be doing IR/US when I bought the hanger, I’d have got the shallow one. No problem though, the water really makes the depth of insertion immaterial, because water is non-compressible, and thus acts as if I was fully against the plastic anyways.

Pulley System - Underneath my desk, penis stretches (mostly) parallel to floor from the seated position.

IR Lamp - Came with a clamp that attaches to the desk. Sits a few inches above the shaft (36W is safe at this distance). I manually move the lamp to alternate skin exposure to the 660nm and 850nm bulbs, which should penetrate 1-5mm below the skin surface.

US - I fill a Ziploc bag with hot tap water, apply gel, and place on top of the shaft. IR lamp shines through the water bag (some percentage is attenuated, but most should penetrate). Shaft is just wide enough to cover the entire US transducer, which I move linearly up/down the appx 10 cm of exposed underside shaft for 20mins.

ROUTINE - Two hour sessions, twice per day. Each routine today looked like this - I plan to continue.

1kg 10mins NoHeat
2kg 10mins NoHeat
2kg 10mins IR
3kg 10mins IR
4kg 10mins IR
4kg 20mins IR+US
4kg 10mins IR
3kg 10mins IR
2kg 10mins NoHeat
1kg 10mins NoHeat

First round in the morning. In the evening my second round is followed by hot shower with 3-5 mins jelqs, then 5-10 mins of clamp sets (each lasting a few minutes). This is played by ear depending on erection quality.

I’m keeping track of alot of data. Particularly my time under tension, and various measurements. I have found a *really* consistent way of measuring length, and I’m taking measurements such as BPFSL, morning wood BPEL, morning wood EG, evening clamped BPEL, and evening clamped EG.

I am having problems determining the exact post hanging session BPFSL, because edema probably is adding a couple millimeters there. However, I’m measuring it anyways, because it should still show growth over time. I also discovered today that I can just measure from the base to the cylinder while hanging, although I think there are some problems with the reliability of that.

STARTING STATS

BPEL - 16.5-17.0cm, depending on where on the pubic bone I place the ruler. For consistency/ease sake, I am going with 16.5cm.

MSEG - 13.4cm, morning wood measured

BPFLS - 17.8cm or 18.0cm. Initial measurement errors caused some discrepancy.

CONCLUSION / COMMENTS

I have a super tough BF/Septum/etc. I’ve never gained any length, I think I gained at best a half cm of BPFSL during the many months I tried hanging years ago before. Even now, at best, I barely measured 4mm (2.2%) of strain with IR/US on the above routine, and that was just now. This morning was more like 2mm of strain. But I’m only on day 2 of this new routine, so lets see if things loosen up.

I also realize that 2x per day of US is really not recommended by Kyrpa. I really tried to find information suggesting that this is necessarily dangerous, and I really couldn’t. The heat dangers aren’t a concern with proper application, and as Kyrpa’s data suggests, the US Pro 2000 doesn’t provide enough energy for that to be a concern. So then the only question is the non-thermal effects, and that looks alot like cavitation issues, which should be recognizable as prickly/stinging sensation.

Nonetheless, I’ll be paying close attention to my EQ markers and pain, and immediately will back off if anything seems amiss. My overall concept here is that I’m willing to be the guinea pig for longer sessions, maybe 1 day per week rest, and 2x per day US. I think there’s still an open question as to whether or extra time under tension (combined with proper loading, heat, and deloading) could provide faster results. I know this increases my likelyhood and potential to hit a plateau / decon break sooner.

Hopefully my experience and the data I’m collecting will be useful to the community here. I understand the risks.

Guittarman03; Great. Looking forward of your progress. I also have VacHanger3 and IR lamp, US device still on the way.

Originally Posted by Guittarman03
I finally made it through a sufficient amount of these threads regarding US to feel it’s time to comment.

I was around here many many years ago, identified that I have the dreaded steel cord, and never gained length despite using contact heat and 10+ hours per week of 5lb+ vacuum hanging for a few months. Did gain 3/4” of total career girth though. After a very long hiatus, I’ve been doing light jelqs/clamps off and on for 5-10 minutes most days in the shower, for about 9 months now, with maybe a 1/4” of new girth.

Now that I have free time to dedicate (this is nearly a part time job), I wanted to give hanging another go at 3-6 hours per day, so I started with 2-4 kg 10 days ago (Aug 7th) without heat .. And then I came across the new information here. The level of research and experimentation put forth by Kyrpa, Tutt (and a few others), is phenomenal.

So I ordered the additional equipment, took a few days off, and now have 2 days with IR/US. Figure I might as well describe my setup, and hopefully contribute to data collection here.

EQUIPMENT

- Autoextender Vachanger3, medium size, deep cylinder
- 660nm and 850nm (both bulbs simultaneously lit), 36 watts (can put inches from penis)
- US Pro 2000 2nd Edition
- Water filled Ziploc for US absorption (about 4-5cm thick)
- Pulley system
- Cable clamp

SETUP

Hanger - I fill the cylinder with *water*, as I have much better results with no blisters this way. I am prone to edema, so I tape somewhat vigorously. If I had known I’d be doing IR/US when I bought the hanger, I’d have got the shallow one. No problem though, the water really makes the depth of insertion immaterial, because water is non-compressible, and thus acts as if I was fully against the plastic anyways.

Pulley System - Underneath my desk, penis stretches (mostly) parallel to floor from the seated position.

IR Lamp - Came with a clamp that attaches to the desk. Sits a few inches above the shaft (36W is safe at this distance). I manually move the lamp to alternate skin exposure to the 660nm and 850nm bulbs, which should penetrate 1-5mm below the skin surface.

US - I fill a Ziploc bag with hot tap water, apply gel, and place on top of the shaft. IR lamp shines through the water bag (some percentage is attenuated, but most should penetrate). Shaft is just wide enough to cover the entire US transducer, which I move linearly up/down the appx 10 cm of exposed underside shaft for 20mins.

ROUTINE - Two hour sessions, twice per day. Each routine today looked like this - I plan to continue.

1kg 10mins NoHeat
2kg 10mins NoHeat
2kg 10mins IR
3kg 10mins IR
4kg 10mins IR
4kg 20mins IR+US
4kg 10mins IR
3kg 10mins IR
2kg 10mins NoHeat
1kg 10mins NoHeat

First round in the morning. In the evening my second round is followed by hot shower with 3-5 mins jelqs, then 5-10 mins of clamp sets (each lasting a few minutes). This is played by ear depending on erection quality.

I’m keeping track of alot of data. Particularly my time under tension, and various measurements. I have found a *really* consistent way of measuring length, and I’m taking measurements such as BPFSL, morning wood BPEL, morning wood EG, evening clamped BPEL, and evening clamped EG.

I am having problems determining the exact post hanging session BPFSL, because edema probably is adding a couple millimeters there. However, I’m measuring it anyways, because it should still show growth over time. I also discovered today that I can just measure from the base to the cylinder while hanging, although I think there are some problems with the reliability of that.

STARTING STATS

BPEL - 16.5-17.0cm, depending on where on the pubic bone I place the ruler. For consistency/ease sake, I am going with 16.5cm.

MSEG - 13.4cm, morning wood measured

BPFLS - 17.8cm or 18.0cm. Initial measurement errors caused some discrepancy.

CONCLUSION / COMMENTS

I have a super tough BF/Septum/etc. I’ve never gained any length, I think I gained at best a half cm of BPFSL during the many months I tried hanging years ago before. Even now, at best, I barely measured 4mm (2.2%) of strain with IR/US on the above routine, and that was just now. This morning was more like 2mm of strain. But I’m only on day 2 of this new routine, so lets see if things loosen up.

I also realize that 2x per day of US is really not recommended by Kyrpa. I really tried to find information suggesting that this is necessarily dangerous, and I really couldn’t. The heat dangers aren’t a concern with proper application, and as Kyrpa’s data suggests, the US Pro 2000 doesn’t provide enough energy for that to be a concern. So then the only question is the non-thermal effects, and that looks alot like cavitation issues, which should be recognizable as prickly/stinging sensation.

Nonetheless, I’ll be paying close attention to my EQ markers and pain, and immediately will back off if anything seems amiss. My overall concept here is that I’m willing to be the guinea pig for longer sessions, maybe 1 day per week rest, and 2x per day US. I think there’s still an open question as to whether or extra time under tension (combined with proper loading, heat, and deloading) could provide faster results. I know this increases my likelyhood and potential to hit a plateau / decon break sooner.

Hopefully my experience and the data I’m collecting will be useful to the community here. I understand the risks.

Dude water in the vacuum head cylinder? I need to know more about this. Please explain more

Originally Posted by BiggerPenis73
Dude water in the vacuum head cylinder? I need to know more about this. Please explain more

It’s the same concept as the Bathmate, or other water pumps. Air is compressible, and so even a little bit of airspace can expand to become a larger volume of airspace. This low pressure environment can stress the skin and near surface tissues, rather than targeting the inner structures we’re after, and as we all know, can cause blisters.

Water is incompressible, meaning that under positive/negative pressure it doesn’t change volume. With a clear cylinder, you can see the air bubbles rise to the top, and can suck them out, leaving just cylinder, water, and penis. This has the effect of having a custom cylinder shape where the skin is largely unaffected. I can hang higher weights with much lower risk of blisters.

The only problem that I have with it, is the water does cause mild edema, which goes away after maybe an hour if I do nothing, or in about 10 minutes if I do jelqs and get an erection. Solid taping of the glans and circumcision scar helps alot.

Definitely recommend trying it. For me it has been much more comfortable.

Originally Posted by Guittarman03
It’s the same concept as the Bathmate, or other water pumps. Air is compressible, and so even a little bit of airspace can expand to become a larger volume of airspace. This low pressure environment can stress the skin and near surface tissues, rather than targeting the inner structures we’re after, and as we all know, can cause blisters.

Water is incompressible, meaning that under positive/negative pressure it doesn’t change volume. With a clear cylinder, you can see the air bubbles rise to the top, and can suck them out, leaving just cylinder, water, and penis. This has the effect of having a custom cylinder shape where the skin is largely unaffected. I can hang higher weights with much lower risk of blisters.

The only problem that I have with it, is the water does cause mild edema, which goes away after maybe an hour if I do nothing, or in about 10 minutes if I do jelqs and get an erection. Solid taping of the glans and circumcision scar helps alot.

Definitely recommend trying it. For me it has been much more comfortable.

I’m just not sure how that would even work.

I have a standard plastic cup, sleeve, “pump” set up that I use for hanging/extending … Like this…

Wouldn’t the water effect the seal of the sleeve? Wouldn’t my glans cause the water to come out before I could even get the thing on?

I’d love if you did a little video explaining how you put it on…

Attached Images
l400.jpg
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Originally Posted by BiggerPenis73
I’m just not sure how that would even work.

I have a standard plastic cup, sleeve, “pump” set up that I use for hanging/extending .. Like this..

Wouldn’t the water effect the seal of the sleeve? Wouldn’t my glans cause the water to come out before I could even get the thing on?

I’d love if you did a little video explaining how you put it on..

I’m using a different type of sealing sleeve, which goes inside the cup instead of outside. You can see at the top the remaining air, which is sucked out with the tubing, and then the tube is clamped off.

Brilliant invention by, I believe Monkeybar. Much more convenient than having to roll a sleeve on the outside, and with the benefit that you can see everything happening inside the cylinder. If I was doing more than 4kg, I might also need the outside sleeve to prevent slippage, but for my current setup this works great.

Attached Images
vachanger.jpg
(110.0 KB, 57 views)

Interesting use of water inside the vacuum hanger cup and the sleeve inside as well.

So we can use a bag of water as an ultrasound phantom? Can we press the bag of water against our stomach if we are using a stress relaxation extender and not worry about the ultrasound waves passing through the bag into our stomach and organs??


Starting (07/15/20): BPEL 6.5” BPFSL 6.5” MSEG 4.75” BEG 4.75” BPFL 4.5”

Current (10/27/20): BPEL 7.0” BPFSL 7.5” MSEG 5.0”+ BEG 5.25” BPFL 5.25-5.75”

Goal: BPEL 7.5” MSEG 5.5” BEG 6.0” BPFL 6.5”

Hey guys!
As said before, I also started with US and use two US 2000 transducers.
I tried it three times now and measured temperatures on 4 points with a good thermocouple, but the two transducers seem to interfere.
When I use one I get better heat than with using two. However, with only one it takes really long to reach >40 C.
The space on the ventral side is about 12,2cm where I can use both simultaneously on my shaft.
It is very hard not to hit each other when I circle both. Kyrpa said they are too close maybe and I can isolate them with a material.
So that if they touch each other they wont interfere and heat my shaft optimally.
I cannot use them away from each other well because my shaft seems to short for that. Maybe you guys can help me what
material i can use to stop the interference.

All the best.


[before PE] Start BPFSL: 17.6cm (6.93 inches) start BPEL: 16.7cm (6.57 inches)

[on decon till 05.12.21] latest BFPSL: 20.5cm (8,07 inches) latest BPEL: 18.8cm (7,4 inches)

Click here to see my amazing US progress report (always updated!Kyrpa's methodology) ;-)

Originally Posted by Guittarman03
I’m using a different type of sealing sleeve, which goes inside the cup instead of outside. You can see at the top the remaining air, which is sucked out with the tubing, and then the tube is clamped off.

Brilliant invention by, I believe Monkeybar. Much more convenient than having to roll a sleeve on the outside, and with the benefit that you can see everything happening inside the cylinder. If I was doing more than 4kg, I might also need the outside sleeve to prevent slippage, but for my current setup this works great.

I have short and that long version too. I have to try to use water with that long one.

Originally Posted by Trapezius
I have short and that long version too. I have to try to use water with that long one.

The cool part about using water with the long one, is you’ll probably see some immediate girth expansion, as the water causes the stress to be dispersed not just at the tip, but also on the sides of the shaft.

In fact, at some point, once I’m more satisfied with my length, I’m going to get another tube that accommodates the entire shaft, and water hang specifically for girth. Similar to the Bathmate, but I found that the Bathmate didn’t provide enough force, and has sealing problems.

I will especially do this if I find that I’m getting BPFSL gains without BPEL gains.

Originally Posted by Guittarman03
The cool part about using water with the long one, is you’ll probably see some immediate girth expansion, as the water causes the stress to be dispersed not just at the tip, but also on the sides of the shaft.

In fact, at some point, once I’m more satisfied with my length, I’m going to get another tube that accommodates the entire shaft, and water hang specifically for girth. Similar to the Bathmate, but I found that the Bathmate didn’t provide enough force, and has sealing problems.

I will especially do this if I find that I’m getting BPFSL gains without BPEL gains.

This is super interesting

I still don’t know how it works even after seeing the picture

Originally Posted by Stixman
Interesting use of water inside the vacuum hanger cup and the sleeve inside as well.

So we can use a bag of water as an ultrasound phantom? Can we press the bag of water against our stomach if we are using a stress relaxation extender and not worry about the ultrasound waves passing through the bag into our stomach and organs??

Yes I believe this is true. I read that water is one of the lowest reflection medium for US waves [which is good, we don’t want reflection we want absorbtion]. In your case I would suggest the following:

1. Make sure that you’re using gel in between the dorsal (top) side of the shaft and the ziploc, to ensure that you’re getting good coupling. Otherwise the boundary there will have tiny air pockets and cause reflection, which is *BAD*, either because if reduces the heat, or worse, causes large isolated spikes in temperature and cavitation.

2. If you’re hanging OTS or SU, and you’re pointing the US towards your abdomen, then you want to make sure there’s at least 5cm of penis+phantom between the transducer and skin contact to your abdomen. US will still penetrate some, but you also have at least a few more cm of skin, fat, and muscle before getting to your organs, so the power should be largely attenuated by the time it reaches your organs. But be careful! That was one of the very clear things all the literature mentioned, was to avoid organs and bones.

SAFETY OF THERAPEUTIC ULTRASOUND (what I can surmise thus far)

Most of the worst safety concerns that I’ve seen in studies so far, were related to higher frequencies, and much higher power (W/cm2) than we are using here. However, regardless of the power/freq used, there were a plethora of identifiable effects on biology; with some uncertainty regarding when those effects are crossing from the beneficial category to being overall negative.

Obviously the thermal effects are the first and easiest to point towards. However, proper use of the US-2000 machine shouldn’t be producing direct thermal effects high enough for damage to be occurring. Which really leaves us with the non-thermal effects, primarily, cavitation. From what I can tell, cavitation occurs even at 1MHz and low power settings (1-2 W/cm2). The difference being the size of the bubbles being much smaller [1], and even hard to detect.

Furthermore, it appears that cavitation is a likely mechanism through which many of the benefits of US are mediated. At low levels, there appears to be gentle triggering of growth/repair factors, with minimal damage to the tissues or molecules in the tissues. However, some form of disruption/damage is occurring, that much does seem certain, even if it is at micron/nanometer scales.

Finally, the thing that really seals the deal for me is this quote from a pubmed article [2], second to last paragraph:

Quote
While general recommendations for ultrasound treatment suggest 5 to 10 minutes of exposure and 1 to 3 treatments per day, clinical treatments are almost exclusively done once a day. The possibility exists that clinical treatment protocols commonly employed for ultrasound are not sufficient for therapeutic efficacy. In the review by Robertson and Baker,63 both of the methodologically acceptable studies showing clinical efficacy used pulsed ultrasound (1:4) with treatment times of 15 minutes

There’s alot more in that article regarding power densities and frequencies, most of which are congruent with our analysis here. And so .. I’m interpreting this to mean 15mins 2x per day of US *should* be safe. Even 3x per day might be acceptable.

SUMMARY

Given that I’m going against some of the recommendations that Kyrpa has pioneered for us, in trying to keep everyone as safe as possible; I felt that it deserved a somewhat more detailed response of why I am choosing to increase the frequency, and why I feel that the risk is likely within reason. It appears that multiple times per day might be beneficial for not just length, but even therapeutic effects. In the past 3 days, I have learned quite a lot with my own routine, which I will make a separate comment later on, detailing what I’ve adjusted and learned since my first comment a few days ago.

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien…096X?via%3Dihub
[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC164359/

What are specs for ultrasound devices that are proven to cause increased erection quality? It is believed to cause formation of new blood vessels/improving function of existing vessels.

Only what I found was this:
“ESWL has a smaller focal volume and the energy is concentrated to one spot, as opposed to ED where the shock waves are radial, the area is larger, and the energy is spread over that greater area,” Dr. Ramasamy explained. “In fact, the energy is about 10 percent of what we use for ESWL for kidney stones.””

So what is the energy of ESWL for kidney stones?

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