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Using the ultrasound for therapeutic heat in PE

Originally Posted by Trapezius

How about using ultrasound with fulcrum hanging? Silicone phantom placed between fulcrum and shaft and then US from top? I am receiving my US Pro 2000 today.

Worth to try for sure. The dynamics change going for fulcrum hanging. The heat distribution needs to be more local than uniform.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
Worth to try for sure. The dynamics change going for fulcrum hanging. The heat distribution needs to be more local than uniform.

Yes I was thinking quite localized heating and then you can change shaft position on fulcrum to target different area in different session. Myself I like larger diameter fulcrums 40-60mm.

Originally Posted by CBateman

I need one more powerful transformer where I can connect both Us pro’s or what exactly?
I live in western europe and also use two 110/230V (euro) adapters to use the Us Pro’s with a euro power supply socket.
If someone just had a link or something more specific i could search or buy, that would be greatly appreciated.

A)You will need a DC converter capable of 15V / 2.4 A, or more (A) with a 3.5mm DC plug.
Then you will need a 3.5mm splitter female / 2 male.

B)If you can´t find exactly that, converters having 5.5 mm plugs are easily all around available. Then you need a 5.5mm splitter and adapters for 5.5mm,/3.5mm.
Actually, it is hard to find the (A)spec equipment with more than 2A max. current. Maybe it would be easier to go this way

These links are only for an example, you purchase where you can.

3.5 mm splitter
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254335018276

5.5mm spitter
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3007414298…AAOxy4c5RqKj g

Converter with 5.5mm plug
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/ac-dc-adapters/7263006/

Adapter 5.5/ 3.5

https://www.ebay.com/itm/322280774677?_ul=IL


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)


Last edited by Kyrpa : 08-24-2021 at .

Originally Posted by igigi
Please define “lube”

Are you using UltraSound Gel? Which is not the same as “lube”

Yes its ultrasound Gel, the blue one that comes with it. I think my machine is just broken I have to return it

For our purpose what would be the advantage of the German device (1000 euros) compared to owning both a us pro 2000 for 1MHZ continuous setting, and for example this one https://dupuytrens-contracture.com/…ntracture-hand/ for a 3MHZ continuous setting ? The combination of devices would still be much less expensive.

Churning over a thought about where to place the 1 MHz transducer. I have been placing it on the underside of the shaft, but I think this is a mistake. The sound waves don’t just suddenly stop at a certain depth, they attenuate gradually along a smooth sloping exponential curve.

From the perspective of the tissue, the arrival of a higher amplitude wave is going to heat the collage cells more than a lower amplitude wave which has been slightly attenuated by having travelled through the shaft first. Yes, most of the energy will pass through the desired tissues, but this is true regardless of amplitude, and thus regardless of placing the transducer farther away.

Originally Posted by Guittarman03
Churning over a thought about where to place the 1 MHz transducer. I have been placing it on the underside of the shaft, but I think this is a mistake. The sound waves don’t just suddenly stop at a certain depth, they attenuate gradually along a smooth sloping exponential curve.

From the perspective of the tissue, the arrival of a higher amplitude wave is going to heat the collage cells more than a lower amplitude wave which has been slightly attenuated by having travelled through the shaft first. Yes, most of the energy will pass through the desired tissues, but this is true regardless of amplitude, and thus regardless of placing the transducer farther away.


The shaft is way too thin for the attenuation happening with 1 MHz to an extension you might be hypothesizing.

In fact, the shaft being a thin object in the perspective of 1MHz penetration, we are experiencing significant reflection from the opposite site skin to air boundary.

The reflection against is strong enough to cancel lots of the energy propagating from the source.

This is why we are using the ultrasound conducting medium at the opposite site of the transducer.

At 5cm dept 1 MHz wavefront has attenuated enough to have lost 50% of the intensity(energy) provided.
At 2.5cm shaft diameter the reflection intensity is huge and the shape of the outer boundary forms a lens focusing the reflection bouncing against the transducer.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)


Last edited by Kyrpa : 08-27-2021 at .

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
A)You will need a DC converter capable of 15V / 2.4 A, or more (A) with a 3.5mm DC plug.
Then you will need a 3.5mm splitter female / 2 male.

B)If you can´t find exactly that, converters having 5.5 mm plugs are easily all around available. Then you need a 5.5mm splitter and adapters for 5.5mm,/3.5mm.
Actually, it is hard to find the (A)spec equipment with more than 2A max. current. Maybe it would be easier to go this way

These links are only for an example, you purchase where you can.

3.5 mm splitter
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254335018276

5.5mm spitter
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3007414298…AAOxy4c5RqKj g

Converter with 5.5mm plug
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/ac-dc-adapters/7263006/

Adapter 5.5/ 3.5

https://www.ebay.com/itm/322280774677?_ul=IL

Wow, this is absolutely perfect! Everything is clear now :-) . I already found the equipment, you were right, the 5.5mm plugs were the norm. Unfortunately I can only test everything in about 14 days,
but I will give a quick update. I am very confidant that this will work. Time and time again, your help proves invaluable ;-).


[before PE] Start BPFSL: 17.6cm (6.93 inches) start BPEL: 16.7cm (6.57 inches)

[on decon till 05.12.21] latest BFPSL: 20.5cm (8,07 inches) latest BPEL: 18.8cm (7,4 inches)

Click here to see my amazing US progress report (always updated!Kyrpa's methodology) ;-)

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
The shaft is way too thin for the attenuation happening with 1 MHz to an extension you might be hypothesizing.

I didn’t specify any exact level of attenuation through the shaft. Simply the fact that at least *some* attenuation has occurred by the time the signal reaches the collagen cells that we’re targeting. I measure about 2.0cm - 2.5cm of shaft tissue between the transducer and the phantom.

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
This is why we are using the ultrasound conducting medium at the opposite site of the transducer.

Yes of course, there’s no question about that. My post wasn’t about whether a phantom should be used, that much is well established.

Originally Posted by Kyrpa

At 5cm dept 1 MHz wavefront has attenuated enough to have lost 50% of the intensity(energy) provided.

Agree, I have also read similar numbers. So then if there is 2.5cm of shaft, we expect to have lost *at least* 25% of the intensity if placing the transducer on the ventral side. It’s a bit greater actually, because the power loss is not linear, but follows an exponentially decreasing curve.

So let’s suppose that in 2.5cm of total shaft thickness, it’s 2cm to reach the tissues that we’re targeting. We could estimate that 20-25% of the intensity is lost by placing the transducer ventrally.

Which brings us to the main point I originally made. That you will achieve *better* heating for the tissues we’re targeting by placing the 1MHz transducer on the dorsal side, not the ventral side. Because again, the most heating of the target cells will be achieved, when they are exposed to the highest amplitude (intensity/power) wavefront.

And given the fact that you had problems reaching the target temperatures you’re after, that extra 20-25% (depending on flaccid thickness) could easily be an extra 1-3 degrees of temperature achieved. This could be even more important for people with a thicker shaft of say, 3-4 cm flaccid stretched.

For reference, I’m using the US Pro 2000 like you.

Originally Posted by Guittarman03
I didn’t specify any exact level of attenuation through the shaft. Simply the fact that at least *some* attenuation has occurred by the time the signal reaches the collagen cells that we’re targeting. I measure about 2.0cm - 2.5cm of shaft tissue between the transducer and the phantom.

Yes of course, there’s no question about that. My post wasn’t about whether a phantom should be used, that much is well established.

Agree, I have also read similar numbers. So then if there is 2.5cm of shaft, we expect to have lost *at least* 25% of the intensity if placing the transducer on the ventral side. It’s a bit greater actually, because the power loss is not linear, but follows an exponentially decreasing curve.

So let’s suppose that in 2.5cm of total shaft thickness, it’s 2cm to reach the tissues that we’re targeting. We could estimate that 20-25% of the intensity is lost by placing the transducer ventrally.

Which brings us to the main point I originally made. That you will achieve *better* heating for the tissues we’re targeting by placing the 1MHz transducer on the dorsal side, not the ventral side. Because again, the most heating of the target cells will be achieved, when they are exposed to the highest amplitude (intensity/power) wavefront.

And given the fact that you had problems reaching the target temperatures you’re after, that extra 20-25% (depending on flaccid thickness) could easily be an extra 1-3 degrees of temperature achieved. This could be even more important for people with a thicker shaft of say, 3-4 cm flaccid stretched.

For reference, I’m using the US Pro 2000 like you.

The picture attached will explain why it is beneficial to apply from the ventral site when targeting dorsal tissue with 1 MHz.
The heat distribution does not equal the intensity distribution.
The skin below the transducer barely heats up while deeper tissue heats in a greater fashion.

https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/ima…9000484-gr1.gif

These things are not up here by a chance. There is information easily available to justify our opinions.

With a 3 MHz, another strategy might suit better.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)


Last edited by Kyrpa : 08-29-2021 at .

Still reading thru the thread, a little confusing BC you guys are so smart lol. I did PE on and off in my 20’s but haven’t since I hit my 30’s (now 32). My question for Kyrpa, if you were to start all over again would you start right away with the Ultra sound?

Also for the guys about the IR lamps. I actually had very good results hanging while baking under an IR light.

Originally Posted by pewannabe89
Still reading thru the thread, a little confusing BC you guys are so smart lol. I did PE on and off in my 20’s but haven’t since I hit my 30’s (now 32). My question for Kyrpa, if you were to start all over again would you start right away with the Ultra sound?

Also for the guys about the IR lamps. I actually had very good results hanging while baking under an IR light.

Surely. I already did.
I had previous experiences which I thought were dead ends without.
I still recommend to gather experience from the actual exercises and study the anatomy for getting to know how the penis responds to various exercises. Before going for the advanced mode with the therapeutic heat.

The key element is not only the ultrasound per se, how the penis is exercised is crucial.
We need to use the heat ultrasound provides in the right moment, aiding the tissue stretch to its maximum capacity at the time.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
The picture attached will explain why it is beneficial to apply from the ventral site when targeting dorsal tissue with 1 MHz.
The heat distribution does not equal the intensity distribution.
The skin below the transducer barely heats up while deeper tissue heats in a greater fashion.

https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/ima…9000484-gr1.gif

These things are not up here by a chance. There is information easily available to justify our opinions.

With a 3 MHz, another strategy might suit better.

Thanks for the diagram, do you happen to know where that came from? I can’t find both diagrams together, just the one about power absorption.

Please understand, I don’t think you’re randomly saying this stuff. But to say that the information is easily available is a bit of a stretch. I spent a few hours today looking for specifically the 2 charts you linked, and could only find the power absorption, not the temperature of tissues at various depths.

Do you notice that chart shows the power 50% power deposition at 7cm, not 5cm for 1 Mhz? Why is there a difference? Are they testing fatty or non-protein tissues? Or a phantom? Because muscle absorbs alot more energy than those tissues, and collagen even more than muscle.

That’s why I’m trying to verify what exactly they were testing in the studies by which those charts were made, because the differences in material tested could significantly change the temperature profile.

I’m open to the possibility that what you’re saying is true, I just don’t have a good explanation for why, and neither do I have any empirical evidence that I can verify which would be able to contradict what seems to be the intuitive expectation regarding waves and energy.

However, as a practical matter, I have been placing the transducer dorsally for the past few days just to see, and I’m consistently showing similar strain in the immediate pre/post US sessions (I mean, referencing only the strain attributable only to the application of US). I can also feel similar amounts of heat at the target tissues. So at this point, I think practically speaking, it probably doesn’t matter that much.

I also ordered a 3 MHz transducer, as I’d like to really make sure I get good heating, and minimize the potential for reflections from the transition to the phantom, which is unavoidable to some degree.

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