Why Near Infrared is better than FIR and US

In general I had the very strange feeling pumping was making my foreskin grow. I’m uncut but with naturally short foreskin, and when I used the pump I noticed gains in that sense - gains I actually do not want.

A couple other issues are:
1) I’m reasonably thick already, I think pumping pushes more towards girth than length gains. For the time being I prefer to focus on length.
2) the pump cylinder seems to absorb IR radiation, even if this seems to happen way more with the 660nm wavelength.

All in all I think I’ll try again pumping in future, after some more length gain, even if that means I’ll have to find another cylinder (the current one is only 20cm long and with my BPFSL at ~19cm I’ve almost got to the end of it).

I thought 1 hour with NIR would be too much? That is like 700 Joules. My pad should be here in 2 weeks so I’m trying to find out the right dose, most studies I read don’t recommend more than 60 Joules. But it is confusing because some say too high of a dose could be detrimental and others say there is a dose-dependent response to NIR with no detrimental effects at higher doses.

I bought a heat pad (this one if anyone is interested: https://www.ali express.com/ite … 5204586265.html ) and I’m experimenting a bit to figure out a routine and set up for later (will start mid August when I get time). So far I used it in combination with the LG vac hanger and FYI I measured temperature of the skin surface (put one lead just under the silicone sheath of the hanger) and it ended up around 39.5 deg C after 30 mins.

I’d actually used a conventional (clay based) heat pad wrap for 20 mins first where the shaft temperature was around 43 degrees, then the NIR pad. I’m in two minds whether to try this kind of combination (since I didn’t have success with ultrasound heating) or just stick to NIR…

I think it’s necessary to clear up a little the issue of IR effects and "how much is too much", also because you might think I’m trying wildly different things and I gave little reason to explain why.

From a scientific point of view, I made an error. Since I’m trying to keep separate this PE experiment from my job on IR, I realized I was having two different mindsets at home and at work.
Knowing the positive effect of heat on PE - from all the previous experience gathered here and on other forums - and following what we said in this thread, I ended up trying to combine the positive effect of NIR with heat by increasing the dosage and focusing over 850nm to avoid excessive heat on the external skin.
The result FOR ME has been far less length gains, but as I said many times, I have to report that in the last couple of months I’ve been practising PE a lot less than I used to do in the previous months. I also changed the routine by adding pumping.
My error has been to combine two very different effects in a way that now makes it impossible for me to understand the consequences of each.

NIR radiation has many effects on human tissues, as discussed in previous posts. Among them, there are two effects in particular which are of pivotal importance to understand why for PE there could really be ‘too much’. They seem to contradict each other.

[I previously said there’s hardly ‘too much’ with IR, as long as you keep that within reason (avoiding using extra powerful lamps for hours and hours). I stand by that, meaning that ‘within reason’ the worst can happen is you lose the positive effects of IR. It’s not going to make you develop penis cancer, nor it’s going to bake and make your penis fall. IR still is inherently much safer than other methods, and IMHO even safer than exercises like jelqing, hanging and clamping, for example]

Effect 1:
- downregulation of matrix metalloproteinase 1 (MMP-1) and the upregulation of type I procollagen.
MMP-1 is a collagenase (enzyme) used by cells to regulate the degradation and remodeling of collagen and the extracellular matrix, so a downregulation of MMP-1 and upregulation of procollagen will result in increased production of collagen in the tissues and faster growth, with positive improvements in texture and roughness. That’s what NIR is best for - as I previously said, it triggers a process that increases the production of collagen and renews the extracellular matrix.

Effect 2:
- Increased heat, which causes upregulation of matrix metalloproteinase 1 (MMP-1). Yes, it’s the opposite.
Increased levels of MMP-1 are associated with enhanced collagen degradation: while some collagen degradation is necessary for the normal turnover and remodeling of tissues, excessive MMP-1 can lead to tissue damage, particularly in the skin. It may seem absurd, but too much IR could cause wrinkles and impaired wound healing, rather than the straight opposite.
When this excessive collagen degradation by heat happens the visible consequence (in the worst cases) is an erythema ab igne, which usually happens to people exposing skin to excessive heat (e.g. glass blowers).
The key point is, heat is what triggers this MMP-1 upregulation, not IR radiation per se. That’s why we know heating solutions have an effect on PE - temperatures above 43° C destabilize the collagen matrix even without any IR radiation.
There are studies proving that a 200mW/cm2 NIR irradiation applied for 30 minutes on skin maintained at 37 °C (by active cooling) had no significant effect on free radical content or the antioxidant defense systems of the skin. Conversely, the same radiation with skin at 45° C showed free radical formation almost doubled and antioxidant power reduced to about 50%.

We talked quite a lot about different routines; generally in biology there’s no difference among high irradiance for short time or low irradiance for longer time - it’s the law of reciprocity (Bunsen–Roscoe law): the biological effect is directly proportional to the total energy dose irrespective of the administered regime.
Yet, this doesn’t apply all the times in photobiology: why? Because you may get IR radiation with or without increasing tissues temperature above 40° C.
If you don’t, you’ll get downregulation of MMP-1 and the upregulation of procollagen. If you do, you’ll get an upregulation of MMP-1 which is bigger than the opposite effect you had at low temperature.
There are studies showing this biphasic pattern, to explain the reported increase in MMP-1 when the artificial IR-A irradiances are high enough to induce skin hyperthermia.

All in all, is heat bad?
Not necessarily. In PE practices many got impressive results exactly by taking advantage of the (destabilizing) effect of >43° C on collagen, so it’s not that a higher irradiation will hinder results. I think for some this might be the best way to build up gains.
I honestly think everyone approaching NIR should try and find what’s best for him (also because as I said, our understanding of this is now way too limited to build an exhaustive theory).
It doesn’t really matter ‘how long’ you irradiate your penis: that’s strictly connected to how powerful your pad is (remembering though that doubling the time won’t get you twice the amount of energy, since blood flow among other things changes the amount of absorbed energy in vivo against what can be measured in vitro).
The real difference is whether you use it till your penis goes over 43° C or not.

I’d say you may try with pure NIR radiation and no heat: in this case, adjust the irradiation time to keep the temperature below 40° C.
Or, you may pursue the heat positive effect in PE: in that case keep irradiating till the inner temperature goes above that 43° C threshold.

Another issue is, how frequently you should use NIR irradiation. The short answer is, I don’t know.
There are studies proving a repeated, regular NIR irradiation may be more effective in promoting tissue growth and healing; consistent exposure to NIR light may maintain a sustained activation of biological processes involved in tissue repair and regeneration.
On the other hand, other studies show less frequent NIR irradiation might allow for longer recovery periods between sessions, potentially enabling the tissues to respond more effectively to each treatment.
I can only tell that I’ve had good results irradiating basically ‘every time I could’, which usually meant once a day for 4 or 5 days a week. I wouldn’t go over once per day and below every other day (in average).

I hope this adds some useful knowledge for those who are starting experimenting with NIR.

That’s interesting, very much appreciate the thorough explanation. Before reading this I thought I would try using NIR everyday (below 40 degrees) and then 2 or 3 days a week also use ultrasound for heat, that way theoretically we can get the benefits of both approaches. But the way you explained it, in that case it seems like with heat I might undo the good done by NIR? Hard to tell if it will even if it’s done on separate days. So I’ll try to do NIR for a few months and then get back to ultrasound depending on the results.

Very interesting Solvay, thanks so much for taking the time for that explanation. So yeah like Kopok I think I’m going to keep it simple for my upcoming routine then and use only NIR with the LG hanger while keeping an eye on shaft temperature. Will try to be consistent for something like 6 months so as to give enough time. So far for me and my pad it seems 30 mins is a good point to stop the NIR after which I’ll continue with the vac hanger. I may well do 15 mins pumping prior to all that, I’ll see how it feels based on EQ. Will report back.

If you look at my historical posts, you can see I’ve been using totalman heat pad while hanging. My % strain was around 5-6% everyday, which is something I’ve never experienced before, not saying the hang weight is light.

I had ultrasound, but it is not convenience application though.

Can you take a look at totalman heatpad specification such as wavelength? Also, what is your NIR heat pad?

I’ve been trying NIR heatpad with a pump, basically you have to pre heat the cylinder with the heat pad for 20 mins. Also, water works pretty well with it. Nice consistent heat during session

I know that Totalman states the following for their Totalman Infra Red Heatpad:
" Graphene film inside entire pad (Wavelengths: 450-850nm) "
But that can’t possibly be true. 450-850nm is the whole visible spectrum + NIR. If this were true, then the whole pad would glow brightly, which it doesn’t. Even if it was just NIR light, you could look at it with your phone camera, and you would see it glow. And you don’t.
I suspect there was a miscommunication with specification, and the graphene films thickness is 450nm-850nm (which is a common thickness for Graphene film). But its still a classic Graphene Film based FIR pad, which radiates between 6000nm and 19000nm.

As far as I remember - and what you posted confirms it - totalman “NIR pad” isn’t a NIR pad at all.
It’s a heating pad with the internal surface coated in ir emitting polymers, in their case namely graphene.
What does it mean? That the pad only actively emits heat, there’s no NIR led; the coating may emit an abysmal amount of NIR radiation when heated.
It literally works like a stove, or an iron rod heated on flames: they emit infrared radiation as a consequence of their own higher temperature.
Since the polymer temperature difference (with the surrounding environment) and sheer size of these particles are minimal, as you can guess the amount of IR is ridiculously low.

As I said in previous posts, don’t use heating pads, even if they’re coated like this one.
Get a proper NIR pad, emitting ir radiation with real leds.

thanks for all the detailed explanations and information about the biochemical inner workings of the cells.

I have been using the Aliexpress NIR pad for some time now, on the highest setting "L5" and with both 660nm and 850nm.

It is just a very strange feeling that compared with the Totalman I used before, the penis does not feel very heated.

The skin temperature is only very slightly elevated.

It baffles me that the 660nm is so weak but I assume I do everything right.

I hope to be able to report some gains in the next 30 days.

All the best

Any thought on LED vs Laser? Are they both the same as far as results to tissue?

And, has anyone noticed any positve indicators regarding erectile function? There have been a few studies over the years offering 808nm as a potential therapy for erectile dysfunction.

Very strange indeed, for how long are you using the pad?
The 660nm should heat up the skin sensibly, in 15 minutes it should be warm, in 30 almost hot.

The different feeling with the totalman pad is because that was a heating pad, so all the energy it transferred was on the external layer and you felt it hot. IR, like microwaves, do not act in the same way: they transfer energy to inner tissues, where you have no direct heat feeling.

That’s because IR increases blood circulation and triggers the creation of more capillaries.

I can only report my experience in this: especially after the first 3 months, I noticed a relevant increase in erection hardness. On a scale from 1 to 10 in EQ, perhaps I’d say I was a 7 before (slowly slipping towards a 6), I’m a 8.5 now.

Solvay, I was wondering if NIR is the cause of growth, then why extend for many hours after the 15 minutes of NIR use?
Do you think you wouldn’t have gotten the same results if you stopped extending after using NIR? You said you didn’t get tissue growth from using only an extender years ago, then what is the point of doing so after the NIR treatment.

I got my pad today and excited to start tonight and see what happens in a month. Trying to figure out a routine to do everyday, but I’m paranoid about doing long sessions as it can toughen tissue and completely stop gains.

It’s not that body tissues have a growth switch that’s on when irradiated by NIR and off when they are not.
NIR triggers a series of metabolic reactions that ignite cellular growth and proliferation: you can think of it as raw energy delivered to the tissues, enabling subsequent growth.

Otherwise every time a human being sunbathes he/she would just trigger uncontrolled growth :D