Dynamic pumping resource and discussion.

Thought I would start a thread for anyone using dynamic pumping to post routines, results or discuss ideas. There seems to be a few folk doing this now either manually or with electric pumps.
First some good reading on the subject.

This Works (Dynamic Stretching)
Cycling pressure up and down…work those ligs baby!!!
The Mr. Fantastic Pumping
My Stress Relaxation-based Traction Device in Action
PE4F High Pressure Pumping: thoughtfulgold

I’ve been trying this method out for about a month now so I’ve got a few things on my mind.
1 Duration of sessions, what’s ideal ?
2 Upper vacuum level, is there an optimum maximum pressure, how to determine it.
3 lower level, does the the lower threshold make a difference ? Would dropping the vacuum to zero in each cycle be better than a baseline of 3" hg for instance ?
4 length of cycle, is a longer stretch always better vs the reduced circulation ?

Lots of things to think about, will post ideas on each over the next few weeks.
Anyone else with experience please join in.

Great idea, Cap. Looking forward to the guys’ feedback.

I use a little bit stronger electric pump than most, it pulls the vacuum much faster, and probably goes a bit higher pressure than most. I like both of those features.

1. Duration 20 - 30 minutes. At which time I need to stop because of glans stinging (the beginning stages of blister). So far I’ve never actually blistered. By 20 minutes I also have quite a bit of fluid build up too.

2. Max vacuum pressure for me is literally max vacuum pressure, and I find that optimum. The higher the pressure I go to in each dynamic cycle, the less time I stay at pressure. I think anything over about 12” Hg could be potentially effective for me, but would take longer at each cycle.

3. Lower threshold vacuum pressure. Interesting topic. My old set up had a baseline pressure of about 1”Hg and my new setup has a baseline of about 4”Hg - total guesses based on feel. I liked the lower base pressure more. And with the new setup, I have to turn it off periodically to get complete drainage and circulation restoration. Whereas with the old setup, I had great circulation throughout the workout. If I could have my ideal set up, I would like the power of my new pump with a baseline pressure of zero. If my pump didn’t pull as fast, and going lower on the low end was taking away from going higher on the high end due to time issues, then I would tolerate going down to 4”Hg, as long as I could shut the system down for a few seconds every couple minutes. Or if the baseline were closer to 1”Hg, I could leave it on the whole workout. Basically my thoughts are that whatever your lower vacuum pressure is, you will need to take a break to restore circulation as often as you would when you do a static pumping at that lower pressure.

4. Length of cycle. I keep them short, and let the stretch come over many cycles, rather than going for more stretch in any one cycle. Most of my cycles are under 2 seconds on / 2 seconds off. then I have some in the 2-5 second range. Rarely go above 5 seconds, and never go above 10 seconds. When I’ve done dynamic pumping with a hand pump, it takes longer to get up to pressure, so these ranges aren’t possible. With that, I use the same ranges for time at max pressure. So it may take me 10 seconds to get up to my max hand pump pressure of 15”Hg, then I will stay there for 2-5 seconds. Then release and repeat. I have found that the rate of stretch slows down tremendously after the first few seconds. It’s probably still moving on a microscopic level, but we can’t see it. Questing after that 1% extra stretch at the cost of circulation or glans stinging isn’t worth it when you can release pressure, refresh circulation, and gain that extra stretch on the next cycle. I have experimented with doing cycles of 1-2 seconds versus doing cycles of 5-10 seconds for the entire workout. They have no difference in the end result (final max stretched length) but the shorter cycles are much safer.

>1 Duration of sessions, what’s ideal ?

I suspect the longer the better provided your unit is up to it. I can do about 60 mins with my MR F water pump before it feels stressed.

>2 Upper vacuum level, is there an optimum maximum pressure, how to determine it.

Good question. Think the risk of blisters and edemas/ donuts may be a limiting factor. Using a glans protector with baby powder seems to avoid blisters and a silicone pumping sleeve prevents edemas. I currently set my max at 14” Hg but am tempted to try a bit higher

>3 lower level, does the the lower threshold make a difference ? Would dropping the vacuum to zero in each cycle be better than a baseline of 3” hg for instance ?

Can’t see the point of going below about 3” Hg.

>4 length of cycle, is a longer stretch always better vs the reduced circulation ?

I suspect a longer cycle would be more effective going on what Rootsnatty wrote in one of his posts. I gather you want to get out of the elastic stretching range. A pity Rootsnatty does not appear to be here anymore. Another issue is how much of the cycle should be near the max etc. With my Mr F water pump I find the vacuum quickly drops from the max but hovers above the min for some time before the pump up reactivates. I can prolong the higher vacuum by temporarily closing the leak valve but am reluctant to do so. What do others think?

Regards
Austfred

Capernicus1 - thanks for starting this thread.

There are lots of variations to what I like to call "short cycle pumping" and, unfortunately, there is no standard vocabulary to describe the technique.

Assume:

Pump Time = time increasing vacuum
Hold Time = time at constant vacuum
Leak Time = time at decreasing vacuum
Rest Time = time at no vacuum

Therefore:

Cycle = Pump Time + Hold Time + Leak Time + Rest Time

Duration of session = Sum of all cycles

Here are a couple more links related to short cycle pumping:

Avocet8 started this thread back in 2007:
Vacuum Pumping when you have ED; the short version, according to Avocet8

VED (vacuum erection device) therapy for Peyronies Disease:
Vacuum Erection Devices (VEDs) for Peyronie’s Disease - PDS - Peyronies Society Forums

Mike with the MrF pumps as soon as the pump reaches the max vacuum it reverts to leak only (ie pump switches off) In the pump part of the cycle both the leak and pump are working.

So I suppose unless you manually interfere by either switching the unit off or by closing the leak valve you really only have Cycle = Pump Time + Leak Time

Austfred

It seems as far as maximum pressure goes there’ll be a level at which you start to see gains and that’s going to be an individual thing.
Much like hanging it makes sense to slowly increase over time.

I think the cycle length and the minimum pressure are more interesting, is it better to let tissue go completely slack between stretches or maintain a certain tension ?
A higher min level would have a cumulative effect on the total stress during a session.

Theres some info on another site that might be revelant if I can find it again.

Any other old threads on the subject please link them.

There’s a balancing act between circulation and cycle time / baseline pressure. My preference is low cycle time, low baseline pressure - in exchange for high circulation and more reps. Going higher cycle times and baseline pressure, I get reduced circulation for longer periods, which then requires longer rest periods between reps, and for a yet unknown reason, also causes shorter sets (faster onset of blistering / fluid buildup). Back with my first set up, I would experience “hyper circulation” with the tube becoming hot to the touch due to the high turnover of blood going in and out. I considered that a great benefit to the practice of dynamic pumping. But I no longer get it with my new set up that has a higher baseline pressure. Not enough blood leaves with each down phase of the cycle, and I end up having to take breaks every few minutes where I just stay at zero pressure for about 15 seconds to restore full circulation.

@BeardedDragon - if I understand you correctly, you are an advocate of "extremely short cycles." For example, 2 seconds pump time (increasing vacuum) + 2 seconds leak time (decreasing vacuum) with little or no hold time. This sounds like the pumping equivalent of your "ballistic stretching" concept…
Ballistic Stretching

Let’s keep in mind with only 8 posts so far in this thread, we can already see that the equipment used is a factor in experimentation. It is hard to do 4-5 second cycles with a manual pump but a powerful electric vacuum pump can and the Mr. Fantastic pump is automated with no hold times.

I also suggest that our individual PE goals influence our approach to short cycle pumping. For example, my primary goals are to avoid injury and improve EQ while my secondary goals are increased girth and length. I believe edema (fluid buildup) that does not resolve within a few hours should be avoided at all costs - not all guys share my same aversion of edema.

Hey Mike,

Even with the quick pump time to high pressure, there is no ballistic aspect to it. Definitely a dynamic stretch and (relatively) safer because of it, although still undoubtedly an extreme PE method.

I use a method that PEforFun described as his main method for gains. Almost all of his posts are relevant and concise descriptions of the method, and he doesn’t have many posts, so read them all if you’re going to try it.
PEforFun

My progress thread has some more info, but PEforFun’s instructions are better detailed.

Basically it involves using an HVAC pump that is constantly on and pumping air out at a high rate, and drilling or boring a small hole at the top of the tube wall to act as a release valve. Putting the thumb on the hole seals the cylinder and it will quickly pump up to nearly a full vacuum (in about 2-3 seconds, depending on the pump speed and how well fitted the tube is). Removing the thumb from the safety valve hole breaks the seal and releases the pressure instantly. There is a baseline pressure because the pump is still drawing air very quickly through the very small safety valve hole. And partially covering the hole allows varying vacuum levels.

BD and austfred 12 and 14” hg ! I’ve not gone over 7 so far.

What kind of internal stretch are you feeling when you hit that point ?

Also as a session goes on does the stretch feeling decrease or increase ?

How is your skin looking doing this ? Any darkening or bruising ?

As a session goes on in time, there’s a kind of acclimation to the pressure. Longer cycles at pressure are possible later in the session, because it doesn’t feel as intense as it does right at the beginning of the session. Part of this is an insulation effect of fluid build up if packing the cylinder. Part of it is the tissues are getting more stretched out as the session goes on. At the same time, there’s an always accumulating workload on the glans skin, which if continued too long will reach a blister level. Before the blister level, there’s a stinging stage. I’ve gone up to 5-10 minutes into the stinging stage without pulling a blister. The actual stretched length is increasing throughout the session, and in a certain way there’s a tiredness that builds up as the session goes on. So in that sense it feels more intense as the session goes on.

No darkening or discoloration. I credit that to regular decon breaks, and never cutting off circulation for too long. I do have extra skin from PE in general. Immediately after pumping I have fluid build up and a donut, both of which go away by about 90% by about 8 hours later. That last 10% will drain out over the next few days, if I don’t do another workout before then. If I really push it too (in overall time), I also get a puffing of the skin very similar to a blister right at the tip of the glans that goes away within about 10-20 minutes after the set. It’s a pre-blister I guess. Sometimes I get the temporary speckling / tiny blood spots that are common with many types of girth work. A couple times I got more serious bleeds / bruising of the skin that required taking several off days.

Any type of skin problem can be fixed with regular decon breaks that lets the fluid completely drain out, and the accumulated dead blood cells get “digested” by the immune system’s cellular clean up crew. Skin problems happen when those things are allowed to accumulate too much. Dead blood cells from PE happen from two things. One is cutting off circulation too long, which also kills some other cells. The other is when high forces break capillaries open and blood spills out into the ECM. The body naturally clears out the dead cells if given the chance with some rest time.

Another thread:

Trying something different.

@BeardedDragon - here’s my post from a couple years ago that might be of interest to you and your HVAC evac pump:

Mike1958 - $15 electric vacuum pump for anyone!

Good link. Lots of electric pump options available.

Cap As I pump up I just get a sort of pleasurable sensation a bit like when you get a great hardon. Remember I wear a silicone sleeve and find I pack the cylinder after a few minutes of pumping. The main thing that happens through the cycle seems to be mainly longditudinal stretching apart from the initial girth stretch. During the session a sort of mild soreness seems to creep in mainly during the pump up part and seems more focused towards the base not unlike what I get during extending. After 60 minutes I get the feeling my unit needs a rest. I also pump with hot water that cools down naturally during the session.

>How is your skin looking doing this ? Any darkening or bruising ?

Can’t tell until afterwards as I wear a silicone sleeve and glans protector However have never got any darkening or bruises from pumping. Got blisters before I sued the glans protector with baby powder. They were more likely to occur after 30 mins of pumping but suspect higher max vacuums were contributing. The same with edemas and donuts before I sleeved up.

Regards
Austfred