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Using the ultrasound for therapeutic heat in PE

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
Non-Thermally
Effects on blood carries another concerns especially when using US within clamping as there are some studies indicating the possibility of lysis of erythrocytes in vivo.

Also there is possibility to cause “blood flow stasis” during standing ultrasound wave especially if there happens to be a reflector causing it.( And the skin to air boundary at the back of your penis is indeed such a reflector as well.)
3MHz ultrasound have been reported to cause blood cells grouping into bands during the stasis. Damages in endothelial linings of the vessels affected by the stasis could occur but mainly being reversible. Again like in many other possible damages no permanent damages has been found. 1 MHz lack references but we need to consider similar outcomes.

Thermally
Heat accelerates both cellular oxygen consumption and the rate hemoglobin donates it. The oxygen consumption can be doubled at temperatures of 41 to 45 C.
Clamping sets should be shorter than usual and extra care should be taken not to get severe hypoxia.
The blood , plasma, is not going to warm very effectively with ultrasound, basically very poorly the blood keeps cooling the collagenous tissue quite a bit during the set.

There are the known risks. The relatively low protein content and the density of the organ in the inflated state also brings many obstacles on heating as well.
Waves are getting scattered with the blood cells and the heating effect by the absorption in tissues is lower because lot of the intensity is lost in the scattering.
Blood itself, the plasma, is not going to heat with US a much so the blood keeps cooling the collagenous tissue a lot.
The penis gets warmer but with a weaker rate than when flaccid.
This may lead the user be tempted in increasing the intensity which triggers even more unwanted non-thermal effects.

About the magnitude of risks. For the records it has to be stated as a one taken in to concideration. Risks are real and have been realized in clinical studies.
Does it stop me personally trying it is another thing.

Everyone worrying about it is better to leave alone, everyone else should study it before jumping in.

Great post.
What is your take on cock ring ballooning with partial blood flow in the 80-110 % EQ range while being in a general temp state bigger than pre-workout size (ballooned up) ?


" PE is a helluva drug. "

Originally Posted by pe_pe
Great post.
What is your take on cock ring ballooning with partial blood flow in the 80-110 % EQ range while being in a general temp state bigger than pre-workout size (ballooned up) ?

Now this is a top level stuff. Not for the rookies I have to mention.

Really positive. Funny that you ask now as I did several heating experiments last weekend and by trial found significantly greater heating rate using restricted blood flow with a loose clamping device while stretching flaccid. The mean temperature was easily maintained around 41C while with a usual non restricted circulation topping mean temperature of 40.2 C takes lots of efforts.

The loose clamp made the shaft a bit puffy during the set but not to a point it woud be described as a erection at any percentage.

I have previously tried fully clamped heating and though it gave great expansion, the temperature failed to rise enough during the 10 minutes clamp set.
I am now convinced the way you described is the way, it is both really effective in every aspect and by magnitudes safer than fully clamped US heating.
Rising the temperature up in semi flaccid engorging it incrementally until the point to be fully clamped and then workout with ballooning manoeuvres.

I will come to this later as it can be very useful in US heated stretching/ extending exercises as well.

The main thing I was experimenting was taking comparisons on skin vs. urethral temps and I think I have found accurate enough way to monitor the temperature without internal probe.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Hey Kyrpa,

great that you are going in a similar direction like me. Really curious about your findings and results in the long run.
So far it is my preferred method of using US.
But this is the first time in my pe career that I can’t say for sure if it is safe or dangerous.
I need some more months to be sure about that.
So I would not recommend it at this point.
I am very in tune with my body feedback and got a lot of pe experience so I can say I am in borderline territory.
I even went down to about 1.2-1,5 w/m2 as the heating effect is more effective compared to flaccid warm ups.
My personal analogy for US heat at this point is treating it like steroids in sports.
I still need my exercises to gain, but my recovery and expansion rate skyrocketed in the last weeks when US is used with higher frequency.
I did 3 weeks 5/2 high intensity workouts with no (!!!) EQ swings at all the next day. This wasn’t expected as I wanted to push my limits.
My temp gains are accordingly ;)

Another border line exercise is a 10-20 % EQ bundled stretch. Sounds counter intuitive, but I use the slight EQ for safety reasons.
I will mention them once and never again as you must be really good at pe to get the right tension especially in combination with US.
Just started experimenting with them and expansion is extreme in the following exercises.

Fulcrums I won’t do again with US heat because it is too difficult to control the intensity especially when you are starting to relax the tissues. There is a real danger if you stretch too hard.
With a hanger fulcrums are probably doable, but I like to warm up my whole shaft.
Since my extender broke I really started to prefer doing manual stretches with US heat as I can heat up more of my shaft without a attachment on my upper shaft and influence my relaxation states by tension adjustments on the fly to get more out of a US session.
Had to work on some new grips to achieve that, but all in all worth all the experimenting.

I am working now on synergy effects with different exercises and narrowing down what works and what not.
When my curiosity is successfully satisfied, I will push the limits to the max in a IPR template factoring in my prior experiences.
My focus is on efficiency to be honest and US heat is my steroid at the moment.

To be honest I was done with pe last year and only wanted to do IPR cycles once a year in the future for fun (already developed a working routine).
But US and pria pumping steered me in the last weeks back to my “addiction” hahaha
I just love creating those temp gains.


" PE is a helluva drug. "

Originally Posted by pe_pe
Hey Kyrpa,

great that you are going in a similar direction like me. Really curious about your findings and results in the long run.
So far it is my preferred method of using US.
But this is the first time in my pe career that I can’t say for sure if it is safe or dangerous.
I need some more months to be sure about that.
So I would not recommend it at this point.
I am very in tune with my body feedback and got a lot of pe experience so I can say I am in borderline territory.
I even went down to about 1.2-1,5 w/m2 as the heating effect is more effective compared to flaccid warm ups.
My personal analogy for US heat at this point is treating it like steroids in sports.
I still need my exercises to gain, but my recovery and expansion rate skyrocketed in the last weeks when US is used with higher frequency.
I did 3 weeks 5/2 high intensity workouts with no (!!!) EQ swings at all the next day. This wasn’t expected as I wanted to push my limits.
My temp gains are accordingly ;)

Another border line exercise is a 10-20 % EQ bundled stretch. Sounds counter intuitive, but I use the slight EQ for safety reasons.
I will mention them once and never again as you must be really good at pe to get the right tension especially in combination with US.
Just started experimenting with them and expansion is extreme in the following exercises.

Fulcrums I won’t do again with US heat because it is too difficult to control the intensity especially when you are starting to relax the tissues. There is a real danger if you stretch too hard.
With a hanger fulcrums are probably doable, but I like to warm up my whole shaft.
Since my extender broke I really started to prefer doing manual stretches with US heat as I can heat up more of my shaft without a attachment on my upper shaft and influence my relaxation states by tension adjustments on the fly to get more out of a US session.
Had to work on some new grips to achieve that, but all in all worth all the experimenting.

I am working now on synergy effects with different exercises and narrowing down what works and what not.
When my curiosity is successfully satisfied, I will push the limits to the max in a IPR template factoring in my prior experiences.
My focus is on efficiency to be honest and US heat is my steroid at the moment.

To be honest I was done with pe last year and only wanted to do IPR cycles once a year in the future for fun (already developed a working routine).
But US and pria pumping steered me in the last weeks back to my “addiction” hahaha
I just love creating those temp gains.

First of all what a boost your post is to me, thank you for contributing like this.
I would like to co-operate with you on this if it is possbile.
I do recognize and confirm just about everything you say and I have been telling since I joined here that PE has been trapped sleeping in the state bodybuilding was before Dianabol arrived. And that was in 50´s.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
First of all what a boost your post is to me, thank you for contributing like this.
I would like to co-operate with you on this if it is possbile.
I do recognize and confirm just about everything you say and I have been telling since I joined here that PE has been trapped sleeping in the state bodybuilding was before Dianabol arrived. And that was in 50´s.

VERY interesting comment, because since you brought us this US science to a therapy, I have been thinking to myself “the best way to approach this is like bodybuilding with steroids for recovery/gains”

How are you measuring temperature without urethral probe? I guess surface skin is one way, but any way to get an approximate internal temperature?

P.S. Arnold was big on dbol lol.

Furthermore to everyone’s posts here, I wanted to get everyone’s opinion on the best hanging rig they use whilst using US.

Hanging is not an exercise I have previously done - so I’m interested to see what people’s recommendations are. Weight, length, backing medium, length of sets etc

Ultrasound Heating In Pe With External Temperature Monitoring

ULTRASOUND HEATING IN PE WITH EXTERNAL TEMPERATURE MONITORING
ABSTRACT
This test series is continuation for the earlier tests with urethral temperature probe.
The temperature management has raised a lot of open questions, whether or not, the external temperature should correlate with the urethral temperature.
This series of tests was run to evaluate the urethral temperature development the heating sessions being steered by monitoring the external temperature.

METHODS
Earlier has been discovered that the Ultrasound heating with 1 Mhz source is most effectively produced with a backing medium having similar acoustic features as the heated tissue.
Penis being thinner than the half depth of the ultrasound it is crucial that there is a soundwave continuation beyond the opposite side to transducer, the beam not reflected against the source at the skin to air boundary. the soundwaves propagating more freely through the boundary.
This has been utilized by placing thermocouple wiring for temperature management into junction of penis and the thigh of the carrier. Coupled with the ultrasound conducting gel ,the premise is the coupling being understood as a uniform soft tissue medium.

Two measuring points between the thigh and the penis and another two thermocouples inside the urethra.
Two pieces of 2-channel digital thermometer were used to monitor the temperature.
The readings were captured by camera on captive mode in 5 seconds interval, therefor gathering four measuring datapoints every 5 seconds.
Data was processed through Excel and data analyses and graphs were produced.

The margin of error for the temperature readings is set by the declaration of the thermometer manufacturer to be (±0,3 %+1 °C ).
As a ultrasound equipment was used two (2) units of 1MHz 1.6w/cm^2 transducers having BNR 5:1 and ERA 4.0 cm^2 (US PRO 2000 2nd Edition), used simultaneously as a dual transducer setup.

TEMPERATURE CONTROL 1
The first dataset was performed in using the established method of placing the shaft against skin of the thigh, penis kept in tension with noose style hanger made of reeling clamp and elastic band.
First run was made primarily reading the urethral temperatures for the safety reasons and secondarily comparing the penis to leg junction temperatures.
Temperature was ramp up during the first 10 minutes and continued for another 10 minutes as the temperature has a trend to be more stabilized at this stage.

RESULTS 1
The data was promising as the urethral and external temperatures showed cohesion at high rate.

The data sets of internal and external temperatures show correlation coefficient of 0,80 which is highly correlating results. For the proximal probe stuck 16 cm deep in the urethra, in similar location amounted skin temperature control follows the internal slope nicely (graph 1, Temperature Control 1)
As well as does distally set pairs (graph 2, Temperature Control 1)

The mean temperature of the proximal and distal portions of the shaft settles at the 40.3°C and 39.8°C respectively for the latter 10 minutes stable temperature stage of the set. (Table1 1)
This set included the temperature decay ramp as well, the heating stopped at 21 minutes point.
(graph 3, Temperature Control 1)

TEMPERATURE CONTROL 2
The second dataset was captured in using the same setup but this time the run was made almost completely reading the skin temperatures only, at the penis to limb junction during the set.
Temperature was again ramp up during the first 10 minutes and continued for another 10 minutes as the temperature has a trend to be more stabilized at this stage.

RESULTS 2
The data was similar showing identical cohesion at high rate. (graph 4, Temperature Control 2 and graph 5, Temperature Control 2)
The data sets of internal and external temperatures again show correlation coefficient of 0,80 which is highly correlating results.
Everything seen in the first run has been confirmed in the second even being controlled only by external temperature.
The mean temperature of the proximal and distal portions of the shaft settles at the 40.2°C and 39.3°C respectively for the latter 10 minutes stable temperature stage of the set. (Table 2).
The human body natural, coded in, thermoregulatory system kicks in at the 15 minutes point.
(graph 6, Temperature Control 2)

It is easy to see temperatures starting to decrease once the blood flow has been accelerated enough, human body has the capability to try to save it from the abuse at least if we not putting excessive amounts of energy in the tissues. This is the time bracket where some would start to think upping the intensity once again. Unfortunately, or should we say fortunately with the used equipment we don´t have that choice available.

TEMPERATURE CONTROL 3
After the second run it was time to think how to intervene the cooling of the great natural cooler.
Using loose silicon cockring at the base of the shaft the superficial blood flow was restricted for a certain amount.
At first it showed promising but after only few minutes it is assumed the diastolic pressure due the accelerated flow override the pressure the silicon ring provided, and the cooling effect was even greater than before. With a very loosely fit clamp the temperature rose 1-2 degrees immediately and was rather easy to maintain at the +40°C level. Having the skin temperature at 39 -40°C the inner temperature following the outer temperature was a little bit higher.

This was the premise of the third run. Using blood flow restriction by a medium size cable clamp with a 5mm thick adhesive EDPM rubber lining inside on flaccid penis.

Running the test similarly to set 2 reading the skin temperature and steering the event controlled by the readings.

RESULTS 3
The heat raise was faster, temperature reaching target at 6-7 minutes already and staying easily managed at target zone. Towards the end it was obvious once again anatomic thermoregulatory effect stepping in charge. (graph 7, Temperature Control 3 and graph 8, Temperature Control 3)

The temperature started to decrease and if there only would be some room for tightening the clamp it should be managed. Clamp was not tight enough not restricting the flow at the latter part of the run.
Anyways as the temperature raises up sooner the effective time under therapeutic heat is easily produced despite the decreasing trend.
More tests will be needed to establish the technique for using tightening the clamp at the 15 minutes point more than was able to do in this run.

The mean temperature of the proximal and distal portions of the shaft settles at the 40.9°C and 39.7°C respectively for the latter 10 minutes stable temperature stage of the set. (Table 3).
Using total sum of points for the mean temperature seen in graph10, temperature control 3.
The correlation coefficient of 0,88 showing the skin temperature following the internal temperature at high degree.

No signs of oxygen deprivation or any change in skin coloring were seen. The superficial veins inflated similarly to not restricted flow situation. The penis felt and showed healthy during and after. Normal high rate EQ the following morning and day as usual.

CONCLUSIONS
The established method of heating the shaft with ultrasound being stretched OTL provide the possibility to use the external temperature monitoring. This will allow the user not only effectively but at higher level of safety.
Keeping the penis to thigh junction at 39-40 °C range, it is assumed that user can keep the internal temperature at therapeutic level and still within safety limits.
The overall correlation coefficient of 0,82 over total more than 3500 temperature measurement digits suggest a high correlation between outer and inner temperature in this kind of heating setup.

DISCUSSION
The biggest limitation in this study was the robust hanger attachment, preventing the firm contact between the distal shaft, and the top of the thigh at times. It is mostly seen in the in the temperature control 3 where the distal temperatures fail to reach the potential provided by the blood flow restriction.
(graph9, Temperature control 3).

Further test will be performed in the future with better contact and clamp able to be tightened more.

Another aspect to take into consideration is the positioning of the shaft. This series of tests was performed having the ventral /lateral side of the shaft in contact with the skin on the top of the limb.

This test series was performed with 1 MHz only, but it can be assumed 3MHz showing similar outcome.

Attached Images
Table1.JPG
(44.1 KB, 49 views)
Table2.JPG
(44.5 KB, 22 views)
Table3.JPG
(43.5 KB, 21 views)
Graph1_TempCtrl1.JPG
(89.6 KB, 48 views)
Graph2_TempCtrl1.JPG
(88.8 KB, 36 views)

START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)


Last edited by Kyrpa : 05-25-2020 at .

More graphs

Test runs with internal and external thermometer probes

Attached Images
Graph3_TempCtrl1.JPG
(90.8 KB, 18 views)
Graph4_TempCtrl2.JPG
(82.4 KB, 10 views)
Graph5_TempCtrl2.JPG
(86.7 KB, 12 views)
Graph6_TempCtrl2.JPG
(87.0 KB, 13 views)
Graph7_TempCtrl3.JPG
(86.5 KB, 13 views)

START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Couple of graphs more

Test runs with internal and external thermometer probes and partial blood flow restriction.

Attached Images
Graph8_TempCtrl3.JPG
(83.9 KB, 20 views)
Graph9_TempCtrl3.JPG
(86.6 KB, 20 views)
Graph10_TempCtrl3.JPG
(92.7 KB, 17 views)

START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)


Last edited by Kyrpa : 05-25-2020 at .

Kyrpa,

Good stuff brother.

How far into the urethra is the thermocouple inserted? Also, I’m interested in the type of thermocouple you used as I have some interest in doing some of my own testing.

Something else I am interested in understanding, which I suspect you have verified, what is the interaction between the thermocouple and the US? What happens to the temperature reading once the transducer is removed? Does the temperature reading drop immediately or does it hold indicating that the surrounding tissue is carrying the heat?

Sorry if you have already covered the above in prior post.


Once upon a time (2015): 6.40” x 4.50”

Today: 7.25” x 5.00”, Thunder Cocks Unite!

I think we can...Little Engine’s Climb

OMG this is incredible work Kyrpa, Thank you so much!! I was actually hoping for this kind of data. My gut feeling was inclined towards these very same results.

Due to the nature of Ultrasound heating, it targets one specific depth/area, but still radiates around compromising surrounding tissues. It was my perception that after a few minutes the external temp will get very close to the internal temp and stay there at that temperature. Your work has pretty much proven that.

Once I have all my structure together to start I will attempt to collaborate with pictures of each step and setting.

Originally Posted by LittleEngine
Kyrpa,

Good stuff brother.

How far into the urethra is the thermocouple inserted? Also, I’m interested in the type of thermocouple you used as I have some interest in doing some of my own testing.

Something else I am interested in understanding, which I suspect you have verified, what is the interaction between the thermocouple and the US? What happens to the temperature reading once the transducer is removed? Does the temperature reading drop immediately or does it hold indicating that the surrounding tissue is carrying the heat?

Sorry if you have already covered the above in prior post.

Not trying to answer for Kyrpa, but he mentioned in the section of “RESULTS 1” that the probe was inserted 16cm deep into the urethra.

Now your second question, is very interesting and thank you for that question. I guess it would be very useful next to know the cooling down ratio, since this window will allow us after the heating session to remove the transducers, remove the tension, and perform exercises while still under useful temperatures.

Originally Posted by LittleEngine
Kyrpa,

Good stuff brother.

How far into the urethra is the thermocouple inserted? Also, I’m interested in the type of thermocouple you used as I have some interest in doing some of my own testing.

Something else I am interested in understanding, which I suspect you have verified, what is the interaction between the thermocouple and the US? What happens to the temperature reading once the transducer is removed? Does the temperature reading drop immediately or does it hold indicating that the surrounding tissue is carrying the heat?

Sorry if you have already covered the above in prior post.

Thanks LE,

To be honest I have been waiting for few volunteers to be conducting such as side shows you suggested. Data is science.

Well seems like you missed me mentioning the proximal depth of 16cm, the distal is 8cm from urethra opening.
K-type (special) not the standard, providing better accuracy than the normal.

Look at the graphs both me and Manko have been producing and you can detect the highest peaks being the involvement of the transducer scanning over.
Very short peaks the temp settling at the normal level in seconds.

Especially at the thin and not so dense distal part the peaks are high. The trend is not seen almost at all in the more meaty base of the shaft.
I am starting to think that the penetration is also too deep with 1MHz at the distal portion. Therefor I am planning to use ultrasound pads next time I run these testing sessions.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)


Last edited by Kyrpa : 05-25-2020 at .

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
Thanks LE,

To be honest have been waiting few volunteers to be conducting such as side shows you suggested. Data is science.

Well seems like you missed me mentioning the proximal depth of 16cm, the distal is 8cm from urethra opening.
K-type (special) not the standard, providing better accuracy than the normal.

Look at the graphs both me and Manko have been producing and you can detect the highest peaks being the involvement of the transducer scanning over.
Very short peaks the temp settling at the normal level in seconds.

Thank you Kyrpa.

When you have a moment (no rush), might you describe your process for inserting the thermocouple?

Many thanks.


Once upon a time (2015): 6.40” x 4.50”

Today: 7.25” x 5.00”, Thunder Cocks Unite!

I think we can...Little Engine’s Climb

Originally Posted by igigi
OMG this is incredible work Kyrpa, Thank you so much!! I was actually hoping for this kind of data. My gut feeling was inclined towards these very same results.

Due to the nature of Ultrasound heating, it targets one specific depth/area, but still radiates around compromising surrounding tissues. It was my perception that after a few minutes the external temp will get very close to the internal temp and stay there at that temperature. Your work has pretty much proven that.

Once I have all my structure together to start I will attempt to collaborate with pictures of each step and setting.


Thanks igigi,

Took me few nights to conduct the report though.

Good call, make some home cooked science as well.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

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