Using the ultrasound for therapeutic heat in PE

Congratulations on your choice, BP73. I think everyone here is curious to know how your protocol is going.

@Kyrpä
Do you think that with 3 MHz you need a phantom as well?

If so, it would be interesting to try the following material: Dragon Skin™ 10 NV Product Information | Smooth-On, Inc.

Agree with you on the “pump”, and it’s not indicative of “true growth”. That for “true growth” progressive overload and compensation must be done by the body. The “pump” IS good for moving blood into the tissues. Blood movement moves nutrients and it’s part of growth. You can get more efficient with “pump” as well, so it’s just another tool in the game of bodybuilding.

Bro-science isn’t quite “quackery”. It’s a simplified process which tends to work. Normally it’s not going to discuss or focus on all the bit’s and pieces that make it work.

I’ve been around the PE game since 2007. There were legit registered docs which were butchering guys cocks. Some of those names were very big names too. ( I’m sure titleist and a few others can recall ) The docs and most of science also said PE didn’t work for very many years, while opting to provide surgery on men, many of those procedures had huge failure rates. Those failures resulted in non functional or even lost penises! That is the “quackery” right there.

So I don’t slam “bro-science”, alot of it works and does what they say it will. If it didn’t work, the “bros” would refute it.

In this case I do recognize that it makes sense to find a way to get an accurate temperature measurement, and to figure out how long on you it takes the device to heat to that temperature range. I don’t agree with people having to perform urethral temps and log them like a legit scientist. It’s not necessary.

I agree with you about the penis butchering business and the denial of the PE as we know it.

I don’t slam “bro-science” by it self , after all what I am also doing here joined by few fellow enthusiast is in fact “bro-science”.
I do slam the way this line of “science” jump into conclusions based on false presumptions, and if not scrutinized enough or sometimes at all, these become household practises which can live on for decades.
Another thing is that “bro-science” tends to have the gurus, lifted on the pedestals, usually by themselves.
These gurus can have an impact of derailing the whole scene being adored by their personal success. Sometimes the gains have even happened not because the practises used but despite of them.
So as long as the “bro-science” stays at peer to peer level and thoroughly scrutinized, and honest to real science based premises , I find it to be healthy.

I want to pick this one and chew it in more detail.
“In this case I do recognize that it makes sense to find a way to get an accurate temperature measurement, and to figure out how long on you it takes the device to heat to that temperature range. I don’t agree with people having to perform urethral temps and log them like a legit scientist. It’s not necessary”

At the end it is not necessary, but we are nowhere near at the moment.
There are equations for the quantify the magnitude of the tissue heating for physical therapy. Mostly based on the work Draper & co did.

I have brought these the matter into our attention in this post
Estimating The Heating Rate

The problem is that we don´t have enough sample rate to form the equation for the penis heating yet.
As soon as we have evidence enough it can be made.
Of course one can jump in the conclusions based on the data already available, that it is what the above mentioned type scientists do.

The good thing is even Draper and his co scientists did not have very large sample rate.
Yet their findings have been the foundation of the ultrsound therapy more or less.
I don´t think we need as much data they had because we can adapt the knowledge and suit it in our case very easily.

At the moment we are having less than a handful of users reporting the urethral temperature readings correlating with the temperature readings measured outside in particular circumstances. So it is promising that the outside the penis temperature can be used with certain level of inaccuracy and safety margin.

After enough users reporting these results we are ready to make the heat profile and base our equation on this data.

At the moment we do need people sticking the urethral probe to confirm the correlation between temperature readings in and out.
For long time to come we need to have people using thermometers taped on the skin of their units for producing the needed information.

I will promise some day there being the heat rate calculations and charts being reliable enough.

As long I am staying involved in all of this I will make everything in my hands this being scrutinized and measured properly.
I will be quite harsh if someone tries to make this another feel based PI case and derail the whole thing with false non measured assumptions.
We have seen enough going wrong with the bro-science particularly in PE.

I never once tried to get a pump.. 😁😎

I honestly don´t know for sure but I do suspect it won´t be necessary based on what I seen recorded from 3 MHz users.
I would be curious to get some more 3 MHz data to evaluate.

Based on data available using + 2 w/ cm^2 the 3MHz can be used quite effectively at least.
Sensei891 has provided me data having very good heating rate using 2.5 w/ cm^2 3 MHz application on clamped penis.
In fact it seems, not to be confirmed though, that singular 3 MHz transducer beating dual 1.6 w / cm^2 1 MHz application on that particular case.

I was trying the 3mhz soundcare today. I didn’t use any kind of backing at all. I don’t have a thermometer set up yet, but I could absolutely feel the tissues heating up quite a bit. The max intensity is 2w/cm

So , it seems like most people are using the US heating to assist in lenght gains , but I had an idea about you US heat your penis and then using a vacuum chamber . Whats your thoughts about this guys . In theory the US should heat the inner parts of the penis and will get a more ‘real’ expansion in those parts instead of skin being filled with fluid by the vacuum chamber .

I hope that I am not stepping on anyone’s toes with my statements:

I don’t like the fact that bro-science is dismissed as garbage. I’m sure there’s a lot of nosense involved. But certainly not all of it is wrong. Moreover, one should not forget that Kyrpä studied many (!) protocols before starting his “non” bro science. With this I want to express that also the winning and failing of other buddies here contributed to the said US protocol. Put another way: Would we be where we are today without bro science? I know the answer: NO. Bro-Science has brought knowledge gains and for that we must be grateful.

Kyrpä, you are talking about self-proclaimed gurus here. You are a guru based on your successes and you deserve them!

Each test, each measured value, whether successful or not, brings us further. We are a community with a single goal: bigger penises! Let’s keep researching! The knowledge gained in the last 2 years is overwhelming. Without Bro-Science we would not be here!

Kyrpä, you keep asking for data, which I basically support. Please accept my suggestion that you open a “data collection thread on US”. Maybe that will bring the desired amount of data. I would like to do that, but since I am only a small fib on the horizon of the broad US heaven, I think it makes more sense if you do that: when it comes to US, you are the boss!

It seems like some of you do not or did not understand the term “bro-science”. Bro science is garbage. Plain and simple. Is based on ignorance, negligence, assumptions without any base.

What Kyrpa has shared with everybody, is NOT bro-science. He has shared real science, and has created an approach based on science. Perhaps y’all think that the term means “science shared by a brother” No. That is not what bro-science means. Bro science is just made up shit by somebody that has no clue about anything.

The term bro-science was born in the bodybuilding industry. Why? because the way people diet, exercise and use anabolic steroids. They learn from a guy in the locker room. Can be a convicted felon who took a 3 month certification online, now he is a self proclaimed coach without any scientific background advising people how to take steroids and making them himself in a trailer from powders bought from china. And since the rookie needs to gain weight, the “coach” recommend him to eat as many big mac’s because those are the calories he needs.

Now, I am not making up that scenario. That happens in bodybuilding forums and real gyms all across America in the USA. And those who take the time to have a real coach and research a lititle bit about the sport, know that scenario to be bullshit. In other words, bro-science. Then that rookie who blew up 20 pounds of water in 2 months, recommend the same to a friend, and to another friend, and the chain continues. That is bro-science. Based on ZERO real science.

Djrobins pointed out the doctors butchering dicks. Well, those are quacks. I agree. An allopathic MD has no knowledge on how to grow tissues. They rely on drugs and surgery. Therefore anything else that escape their realm of specialty, will be dismissed by them. A lot of people confuse doctors with scientists. They are not even close.

It has always been to me uberly moronic to do sloppy shit. Half ass work. There is real science available. There is real data. Yet people live with the mentality of doing things half ass. When it comes to heat, we have the data. We have the information. We have the science. It is incomprehensible to play blind, not read it, not follow it, and just throw a hot blanket on my dick hoping to grow like an elephant. This is the reason why our effort progress so slowly. Making shit up waiting to see what works and what not is irresponsible, risky and quite simply, unjustified.

I cite as an example the case of the user stagestop, whom log was shared by NYTexan the other day since NY is following an interesting approach providing him preliminary great results. Stagestop did follow a similar approach many years ago, and his log still exists. However, when you read his log, he shares what he is gong to use, why, how often, and then he starts.

As you read the log, after 30 days he posts that he grew around half an inch (might be mistaken but I think he said 0.5”) However, if you followed the log, there were ZERO pre measurements, zero mention of doses, zero mention of time of the day to apply it, zero mention of how many days per week, zero daily progress, weekly, nothing. So the whole thing is useless. Is garbage. Waste of time for everybody. There could have been perfectly some of the variables that worked, that could have been quantifiable, but nobody ever had access to that data because of a shitty sloppy job. There could have been real advance and help for other members to take it from there and build up, but zero was provided.

That is what I am talking about. It seems like many approach this issue from an emotional perspective. Sometimes I picture some PE’ers as individuals in depression willing to throw any voodoo curse at their dicks hoping that it works, and when they come across any exotic idea they jump on it like addicts while praying to see that dick grow like a hose. That my friends, will never happen. Certainly not everybody. The vast majority here I am happy and glad is taking it very serious and is hungry every day waiting to see more data and results to follow. I love that. This is a team effort to benefit everybody and many after us. But in order to do so we need to lay a solid serious foundation.

Its pretty much like wanting to be an astronaut, follow astro physics for years, learn rocket science, zero G science, follow guys building their own rockets and space suits, following some who have succeeded and are already in orbit, then I come to them and I ask them “hey guys, I cant for personal reasons now build the engine of the rocket, but if I just put gun powder, can I still make it to space too? I think I will give it a try”

You be the judge.

All due respect igigi, you sound emotional. And that’s ok brother.

There are many here that get the isolation of variables, but for some, the time required to apply with such discipline is just not available. To succeed in life we have to prioritize. Some of us are just passionate about the journey of PE.

Thank you for applying your energy to delve into the variables, but it might not be wise to not be so quick to judge and dismiss those that have travelled a similar road with a bit of a looser approach.

Just because it might take a little more work to understand the results, doesn’t mean that the data is not there.

Passion has taken us to wonderful places.

I have tried it, trying to find a similar powerful effect the US can make with length. Despite the promising results there is not a such breakthrough available yet. You can use it like you describe but the heat must be applied during the expansion if aspiring for extraordinary results, and there is no evidence if it still works or not.

The transducers need to be assembled inside the cynder using water as a transfer medium.
Utrasound waves at these frequencies do not travel in air and especially not in vacuum,
don´t know if the same is true with the water molecules influenced by the negative pressure.

The materials used in these vacuum cylinders absorb the ultrasound energy not passing through.

The cry for the data has been sort of momentum building. The premilinary sample group being too small still.
We can do it , putting it up there and collect, but it would take lots of time before we have enough to have noteworthy results.

You do realize it needs some real dedication and resourse management to pull it through.

I appreciate your efforts already and I am sure I`ll need your help once putting the thread up.

I have expressed similar frustration over the course of this journey a in my posts already and settled down to take it as it is.
We surely can make this a little better and personally already focused on embracing the little motivation still left on productivity.
There is no way on changing attitudes of the scene, best we can hope for is to someone stepping on the board every once in the while.

I spend decades inside the bodybuilding “brotherhood” and have seen it all. Been involved with the ugly face of “bro-scientific” garbage and I do totally feel the frustration you share. But after being away long enough I just don´t care anymore.
Or I do care enough to make it sure, in this occasion with PE trying not to get invlolved with the most dubious lunacy.

But from the start despite the scientific approach and exclusion of the feel based PI¨s as extensively as possible, this is not real science either. Being advantegeous bro-science then. The labell is not that important as long as we keep it as measurable as possible and true to the known scientific background. Some sort of applied science and at its absolute best it could be, phenomenological modelling.
I still doubt the latter being out of the reach.

Interesting answers! Basically, I do not want to contradict, however, I allow myself to add a few words.

I already think that I understood the expression bro-science correctly. I am also not saying that it is wise to apply it. Nor am I saying that every kind of bro-science must be celebrated.
I’m merely saying that I don’t think it’s ok to demonize just that. It’s not really science to hang 300 pounds on your device. Nevertheless, it has made a contribution to finding this very protocol. Afterwards one always knows everything better and one likes to forget how stony and difficult the way to the current state is. That is all I want to say with it.

I also share this opinion. We are still pioneers, and apparently successful pioneers at that. If we would work properly scientifically here, we would have to set up other weapons. To this day, I guess we can’t be sure if we have taken into account every scientific finding. And therefore every user must be clear about what he is doing.

Thank you! Let me know when the time comes and we’ll get started!