When is penis size too big & counterproductive?

I remember reading an Q&A with pornstar Aletta Ocean (🤤) - and she said anything over 9" is too big. And considering what she is used to, I think the average woman would probably max-out around 8"(?).

As for girth, personally I wouldn’t want to be over 6" ‘round, as it sounds too impractical. I’ve heard lots of guys with 6" girth (or more!) say their partner has difficulty - or that oral and/or anal are off the table. A lot say BJ’s aren’t as comfortable/pleasurable (because of unwanted teeth scrapes etc.).

Still, there are worse problems to have than having a penis that is too long or thick, lol. 🤭

In my experience the smaller girls have the wider/deeper pussies, while the bigger girls have the super tight one’s and I bottomed out more often.

Very odd to hear accounts of the opposite.

I think if you want to maximize your compatibility with the largest number of women, length should max out closer to 7in plus minus half an inch and girth should max out at closer to 5.5in

At 7in, you’re bottoming out the vast majority of women in most positions and a good portion in every position, and a lot of women love men going balls deep because our pubic bone and fat pad provide pressure on their clit while our cock fills them up and stimulates the A spot. Even at 7in you can’t do that without significant pressure on the cervix, which some women like some of the time, but a good portion of women NEVER enjoy.

At 6in girth, quickies and spur of the moment fucking are pretty much out of the question and her pussy needs to be warmed up and properly lubricated. Women enjoy a lot of girth *occasionally*. For everyday use, they prefer a moderate amount of girth. Studies seem to indicate girth closer to 5in being their ideal for long term relationships, but I give 0.5in leeway because we don’t always have 100% EQ 100% of the time and that gives you a nice safety margin and also because guys need to stroke our egos that were bigger than necessary.

I’ve been reading through this thread off and on for about a week, and I keep coming across guys who insist "everyone knows" that most women think "bigger is better." To quote Jeff "The Dude" Lebowski in reply, "Yeah, well, you know, that’s just like, uh, your opinion, man."

Given that Thunder’s Place seems to attract many guys (at least in the forums) who are interested in fact-based and scientific approaches to PE, I’m surprised I haven’t come across more citations in this discussion of actual research about women’s preferences for penis size. I think I’ve seen a few mentions of studies, but there’s also a whole lot of conjecture, opinion, and anecdotal experience—none of which amounts to decisive evidence.

Being interested in this topic, I looked up a couple of articles to help get a more definitive answer to this question. The most useful I have found thus far is this one using 3D models (it’s been referenced elsewhere either in this thread or another):

Prause N, Park J, Leung S, Miller G (2015), "Women’s Preferences for Penis Size: A New Research Method Using Selection among 3D Models." PLOS ONE 10(9): e0133079. h***s://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0133079

Participants were 75 mostly white or Asian women of 18 years or older who are sexually attracted to men. They were recruited by flyers distributed around a university campus in Los Angeles, California (the capital of the porn industry), its surrounding neighborhood, and local physicians’ offices. The participants were then given a battery of questions and tasks, the chief task being to pick the model most closely approximating their preferred penis size from 33 differently sized 3D-printed models. The result was as follows:

"There was a small main effect for expected relationship duration, F(1,59) = 4.4, p = .04, ηp2 = .07 (see Fig 6), such that participants preferred a slightly larger penis size in one-time (length = 6.4 inches or 16.3 cm, circumference = 5.0 inches or 12.7 cm) partners as compared to long-term partners (length = 6.3 inches or 16.0 cm, circumference = 4.8 inches or 12.2 cm)."

So, the women in that study preferred only somewhat above average for long-term sexual relationships, and only slightly more than that for a one-time fling.

Another intriguing study I found is one analyzing sex toy sales by the largest online sex toy retailer, Lovehoney:

Johns, S. E., & Bushnell, N. (2024). What Drives Sex Toy Popularity? A Morphological Examination of Vaginally-Insertable Products Sold by the World’s Largest Sexual Wellness Company. The Journal of Sex Research, 61(2), 161–168. h***s://doi.org/10.1080/00224499.2023.2175193

Granted, toy preferences are not an entirely reliable stand-in for preferences when it comes to real, live penises; but it may be reasonable to infer that sex toy sizes getting regular usage have some correlation to actual penis-size preference.

The authors performed a regression analysis upon the data set provided by the company to determine the chief characteristics of their consumers’ sex toy preferences. Here are their findings regarding size:

"Insertable Length in our sample was significantly larger (mean = 7.07 inches ± 1.72, Min = 4 inches, Max = 14 inches, t (265) = 18.02, p = <.001, 95% CI, 1.70–2.12) than the described population-wide average (5.16 inches; Veale et al., Citation2015). Additionally, Circumference was also found to be significantly girthier in our sample (t (259) = 11.27, p = <.001, 95% CI, 0.77–1.10, mean = 5.52 ± 1.34, Min = 3 inches, Max = 10 inches) when compared to the mean erect circumference of 15,521 penises (4.59 inches; Veale et al., Citation2015)."

Length, however, turned out not to be a significant factor in determining popularity of a toy in sales. Girth was—but only up to a point after which sales dropped off. The authors further state:

"Our results further highlight that women may not be simply seeking a large phallus size as could be assumed given the sociocultural influences around this being a desirable trait (Sharp & Oates, Citation2019)… However, we found that for toys at least, although circumference was influential in predicting product popularity, insertable toys of a larger girth in our sample were less popular, while length was non-significant. There appears to be an emphasis on offering slightly larger than average phallus products, and yet products with larger circumferences were not as popular as less girthy models. In our sample, the 5 most popular products had a mean circumference of 4.85 inches which is just above the average circumference for real penises."

That 4.85" mean girth of the five most popular products is in line with the study using 3D-printed models (4.8" for long-term partners and 5.0" for short-term).

At least according to these studies, then, women on the whole do indeed think bigger is better—but only somewhat bigger than average, after which the law of diminishing returns goes into effect with a considerable drop off in preference the larger one gets.

The studies’ findings also suggest to me that, out of all the observations made in this thread, those saying lengths of between 6.5 and 7.5 inches for length and girths between 5.0 and 5.5 are the upper limit of what most women want are probably hitting closer to the mark than those saying it’s more than that.

Anyone else seen some good research articles on this topic to share here?

Note: for the citations, I replaced "https" with "h***s" to avoid breaking any rules about hyperlinks.

Lol, anal is/was never on the table for me with my partner regardless. She gets freaked out if I go anywhere near her bumhole. Oral is like a delicacy once in a blue moon. May as well just enlarge my knob as it probably won’t make much difference to my sexual activity with my partner

I’m 33 been with the same woman 17 years, we’ve got 5 kids together all vaginal births, I’m bpel 7-7.5 girth 5-5.5" all depending on EQ.

I still find it tight to enter even with foreplay, she doesn’t like balls deep in doggy too painful and missionary she sometimes has to push me back a little.

A partner before my wife called me small I now think she was a size queen

Keep in mind some women talk smack to guys like that even when they know it’s not true and aren’t size queens. I think it must be a power play or mind game for some of them just to mess with a guy’s head.

That’s a very good analysis and all of these studies have indeed been discussed on these boards many many times over the years.

One thing to keep in mind about the sex toy studies is that you have to take into account that you have to hold the darn thing when you use it, so part of the interstate length is needed to grip it and the toy isnt necessarily inserted fully.
This helps explain the length discrepancy between the toy studies and the 3D model survey.

Unfortunately, a LOT of guys refuse to internalize the results of these studies or believe women when they say that bigger isn’t always better.

Reddit is full of threads where a guy will ask women about either the ideal size or the importance of size or whether bigger is better, and there will be tens of hundreds of women who basically all agree that:
-size isn’t one of their top priorities
-as long as it’s around the average size, it’s great, whether it’s on the smaller side or the larger side.
-extra large penises might be a novelty once in a while, but are often attached to inattentive lovers who only rely on their size and neglect every other aspect of sex.
-majority of women can’t orgasm from penetration regardless of size, so for them size will NEVER be a priority

And there are ALWAYS guys who will argue these women to death, somehow thinking they know better than women themselves.

8x7…seems implausible. Yet an Aussie with “stage” name girthmasterr is that. Yes, two “r” at end for when you look for him on “X”, and you know you will…and there he is with stars/women taking it all…wow…

Slightly tangential to the topic of the thread, but in response to some of the "ideal" penis size for women discussion:

I get why so many guys are calibrating based on what they think most women might prefer, especially if they are single. And I also get why we wouldn’t want to be too large for most women to easily enjoy, at least as a general matter.

But one thing so many guys seem to overlook is how much better sex feels when you are larger, both in length and girth. There is so much more pleasant friction, and the pelvic muscular response of the female partner is much more pleasantly transmitted to a girthier penis. It makes every partner feel tight and responsive.

As far as length, being able to rub your distended glans along the back wall of her vagina from pretty much any position also feels amazing. Plus you can target whatever depth you prefer based on the position and your need to increase or decrease your own sensitivity to prolong the session or to finish on your own timeline.

If you aren’t an insensitive lover, you learn your partner, use a little lube when needed and take your time as she gets used to you, I think you’d have to be monstrously large to exclude yourself from regular, long session, mutually enjoyable sex.

I’ve never had an issue with being too large with any woman I’ve been with, and I can say for sure that the longer and thicker I have gotten the better sex feels… to me!

So don’t forget that it isn’t all about pleasing the woman or about supporting our male egos. A lot of it is about sex feeling amazing for the guy.

+1

My viewpoint is that most of the men doing PE aren’t doing it for their women; they’re doing it for themselves, to raise their self-perceived status against other men. Even though most of those men would never see it anyway.

I will freely admit my viewpoint on the world changed noticeably when I went from "average" to "probably swinging more meat than anyone else in the room."

As someone who is gaining girth just by existing, I can attest that issues start when the girth gets beyond 6 inches. Good and bad. That’s when the girl can’t walk right the next day, feels sore for days but likes it and texts you about it often. It’s also when sometimes penetration is not possible at all. Deep throating pretty much impossible, learn to enjoy teeth. Anal is off the table unless you find yourself a real freak, almost certainly would have to be a professional. Not fussed about anal so no big deal, but I am a BJ fanatic so that part is quite a downer for me.

Anal has been out of the question for me since my girth got to 5.25”

That’s both with my wife as well as every female play partner we have had in the 10 years we have been swinging.
That being said, we haven’t met anyone who was specifically REALLY into anal…

My wife tried a couple of times and no matter how slow and gentle I was, or how much prep play we did with smaller toys, she just could not enjoy it at all.

She was really excited when the last single guy we played with was significantly smaller (probably around 5”x4.5”) and finally got to try her DP fantasy.

It’s not based on scientific studies, but I like this one here:

750 different experiences from larger penis sizes in one file