Why do they say pumping is not permanent but clamping is?

My understanding has always been that pumping draws in and continues to draw in oxygen rich blood as well as lymph fluid until the penis expands to meet the volume of the tube over time. Although, the pressure on the erection diminishes over time as the vacuum space between the top and the lymph fluid expanded base of the penis shortens creating less vacuum pressure at the base than at the head.

Clamping works in a completely opposite way trapping in almost all blood supply expanding the chambers and creating a controlled priapism where some blood can flow in but none can flow out. Clamping, unlike pumping, does not allow full expansion of the entire penis. In fact, the area the clamp is worn to the area just behind no expansion takes place. This can create a severe baseball bat looking erection if not used careful in conjunction with controlled pumping.

I haven’t done much with clamping, Divider, but as I recall from my reading here, some have reported exactly the opposite effect - greater growth in girth where the clamps were applied. I don’t recall seeing any clampers complaining that they had developed a ‘baseball bat’ shaped cock as a result of clamping.

Still, any change in shape in the penis is worth noting, especially if it’s taking you in directions you don’t want to go, so thanks for the cautionary note.

It’s like all other forms of PE, it takes time and dedication before results are seen, but does differ in the temporary gains. Immediately after, for most their dick is a lot bigger although spongy with lymph after too much time or too high vacuum. I’m sure everyone shrinks back to normal size after one session (or something so minute not measurable or perceptible to the naked eye). The large difference might be why it gets the stigma that doesn’t work over other forms of PE.

Remember also that any regular Joe Bloggs (John Doe) can pick up a pump and make use of it, whereas clamping is something most likely only tried by PE Enthusiasts and strippers, so there’s a LOT more people to denounce the pump, compared to the clamp.

On another note, pumping doesn’t work for me too well - I can’t maintain an erection without taking the pressure quite high, but pumping once a week on a Sunday, say, slightly lowers my EQ on the Monday but gives me stone-hard erections Tuesday through to Saturday. Clamping seems to be working for me on girth at the moment, albeit slowly, because the erections I get after I release the clamp are almost as large as during the clamping.

Intuitively that’s what i always thought,
However the area where i have most gains is at the base where i completely pack the tube !
You would think where expansion is limited like this or at the area under a clamp you wouldn’t gain but the opposite seems to happen for many people.
Any ideas why anyone ?

Its a pretty good generalization that if your EQ is dropping from pumping you either are using too much time or vacuum force or both. I found the Newbie guidelines MASSIVELY too much for me to take productively.

If you are curious about pumping, I recommend start with 2X2 daily, that is 2 minutes at 2 in hg. If you do ok with that, add 1 minute every other day. Once you hit 5 minutes, you can raise your vacuum force to 3 in hg. If that is ok again (by ok I mean you aren’t getting drop in EQ (all aspects, read the thread) then start raising the time again by 1 minute every other day, until you reach about 10 minutes.

You should be carefully monitoring your EQ, for me, nite wood, morning wood and flaccid are my earliest most sensitive indicators. IF at any time EQ drops, then back down to the last level where EQ was good and stay there. Once you find that level, keep very close tabs on your max LUV (length under vacuum) or post pumping girth. If you are making gains, just stay at that level until you begin to see it slow or stop. At that point try adding another minute or two and then see what happens with that over the next week.

I recommend keeping the vacuum force at 5 in hg or less, and try experimenting with time instead of going higher with vacuum force.

For me, I found gains to occur at about 5 in hg. Less wasn’t enough and higher stops gains for me…at this time. The other thing is I didn’t see steady gains, rather gains in spurts. No change for a couple weeks, then suddenly the LUV was moving up again. I have been adding about 1 minute a week now, and am at about 17 minutes. This for me is productive. I will continue to add 1 minute a week until I see EQ start to drop, then I will back off to the last productive level and hold it there until I see gains slow, then I will begin to add 1 minute a week again.

Also, this allows me to keep good EQ levels, as a matter of fact that is partly how I measure the need to press forward or go back. If EQ is dropping, you need to cut back on time. I think the critical concept to make this approach work is finding the level of force/time that allows you to pump daily WITHOUT dropping EQ.

Also, for me at least I found that DAILY is critical. The pumping is the stimulus, and a good to great flaccid and nite wood helps cement that tissue stretching you do in the pump.

Just in general, I found and a couple other guys so far find about 5 in hg for 10 minutes is where you start to see positive changes. Of course I am and those guys were hard gainers, so your experience may be vastly different. However, if I was to venture a guess on general ranges, I would say for DAILY pumping, between 3-5 in hg and between 10-30 minutes of time. Don’t use this guidelines as a “cheat” and just jump in at that range, slowly work up and carefully observe YOUR reactions and EQ, that’s the secret of making pumping work for you.

One last note, I find if you need to push into the 5 in hg range, water pumping will allow a greater percentage of guys to make progress. It allows you to handle higher vacuum forces with less surface tissue stress. AND a good rule of thumb is if you can’t get a good hard erection when you are finished with your PE, its probably too much.

So you can water pump without a Bathmate? Is it as simple as putting water in the cylinder? Do you have to stand in the shower? I always sit at the computer and don’t want a water mess.

Yes. Yes. No. Set yourself up in the bathroom first or have a big towel at hand to wipe up. There will be some water mess, but as you learn how much water you need (don`t fill it completely), the mess is rather small.

Sparkyx and Long Vehicle have written a lot about WP in the pumpers forum. Do a search…

WATER PUMPING > Air Pumping

I fill it in the sink in the bathroom with medium hot water, then just step in the shower (or tub) insert my semi to hard penis in the cylinder and draw a vacuum to close to my normal LUV (length under vacuum) minus about 1/2 inch. Any water spillage goes in the shower or tub.

I then hook up my over flow cup and then either the hand or electric pump. Don’t try electric until you have done the hand pump enough to be very competent with not getting the water past the over flow cup.

This is what the over flow cup looks like;

Brake Bleeder and Vacuum Pump Kit

Obviously its the white cup like thing.

For me its important to be as erect as possible going in or else I get too much skin being pulled in, and at about 15 minutes, its that skin that starts to be painful. I also personally think I do better trying to stay as hard as possible during the session.

Remember the expansive force is erection force (EF) + vacuum force (VF)= expansive force

So, the harder your erection, the more total expansive force you get when you apply a vacuum force.

I think we discussed it in the thread, but a brief recap is that the increased blood pressure in the penis from the erection causes expansion. Usually erections aren’t enough force or long lasting enough to compromise or stimulate growth (although priapism will do it, but it may be due to tissue damage from lack of oxygen).

Vacuum force REDUCES the external atmospheric pressure. Normally the pressure of the air we live in has a certain value related to the elevation you live at. This atmospheric pressure is a counter force to our internal pressures like blood pressure and erectile pressure. When you vacuum pump, you REDUCE the atmospheric pressure around your penis, so it causes a RELATIVE increase of your internal penile pressure.

So, the net EXPANSIVE FORCES= EF+VF or EF-AP (atmospheric pressure, which is technically a more accurate description). So, you could probably make up for no erection by greater vacuum force, but greater vacuum forces tend to stress the surface blood vessels and cause fluid migration (edema and bleeding) so overall its much better to keep it as low as possible. For me, I find I do best with keeping as hard an erection as possible for my now 17 minute session.

In the above thread I discuss that I use an in line valve, which I believe makes the process a lot easier;
Picture.jpg

I believe in that thread I was using the LUV method for determining proper vacuum levels. I have long since given that method up, because I am very sensitive to vacuum levels, and that method was not accurate enough for me to make gains.

It wasn’t until I went back to water pumping with a overflow cup and a gauge that I began to see results. Remember, for me UNDER 5 in hg I didn’t see gains and OVER 5 in hg I didn’t see gains. It wasn’t until I stayed at 5 in hg at 10 minutes for a few weeks that I began to see gains.

So for guys like me, 1-2 in hg can be the difference between success and failure, and so for us, we NEED to use the gauge. AND if you are using the gauge, you need to use the over flow cup.

If you decide to go electric (after mastering the hand pump) then you use the gauge on the hand pump to set the vacuum level on the electric pump, then after that you don’t need to, it stays where you set it.

$15 electric vacuum pump for anyone!

Sparkyx - very good stuff.

I’m currently doing 3 x 10 minute sets at 2.5HG. If you were me would you start experimenting with a single 10 min set at higher pressure? That is ramp up to 3.0HG and see how that goes? Then ramp up pressure more the following weeks until I see where my EQ/gains sweet spot is?

Sparkyx

Can i ask how long you stayed at a certain pressure in terms of days/weeks with no gains but positive PI’s before you would increase it ?

Since you said your gains came in spurts its possible you could increase pressure and then see gains that were actually a result of the previous lower

pressure if u see what i mean ?

Only IF you want gains, and aren’t seeing it. If you are getting girth gains, but want length gains and they aren’t coming, then try that. If after moving up in vacuum force, and slowly over time even up to 5 or 6 and still don’t see gains, then I suggest try water pumping if you aren’t already. To me, water pumping is important if you have used up to 5 in hg and still haven’t seen gains.

As I think I mentioned, I think the key (at least for me) is the most amount of time I can manage DAILY without crashing my EQ. I had gone all the way up to 8 in hg but I saw no gains until I keyed in at 5 in hg. I think for most guys it will be in the 3-5 range. Maybe after a couple years of pumping, you can move up in vacuum above 5, but you risk toughening when you start getting too high.

Really thats the very question I am at now. What I have been doing is pretty much automatic increases by 1 minute each week, as long as EQ stays high. I have in the back of my mind to hit the 20 minute zone and then slow down and see if gains cont or stop. I figure as long as they continue, stay at 20 minutes (I’m currently at 17) until gains stop, the I would start to add on again.

How long would I stay at one level with no gains? I don’t know, maybe try about 2 weeks, then up it by one minute. I haven’t had to come up with firm answers for this yet, because I am making gains and adding about 1 minute a week. Like I said, I figure when I hit 20 minutes, I will probably hold there for a while. Somewhere in the back of my head I think 20-30 minutes sounds about right to me, but really thats just a guess.

I think I just have been thinking of going up 1 minute a week as long as EQ stays good, which it has.

This thread has always been in the back of my mind since Wad wrote it, and I guess I have always wanted to be able to translate it into pumping. I have to re-read it and see what criteria he used to increase time.

Speaking to Big Gainer soon

Ok, here it is;
post #92

So every 3 weeks or so, he would add a total of 4-6 minutes, so I think adding 1 minute/wk would be reasonable. I think I will stick with that for a while then, as long as EQ doesn’t crash. When it gets up to too much time for my taste, I might do a decon break and try and drop it down. OR pause at 20, or every 5 minute increases and see if I am still gaining. OR try 1 miniute increase every 2 weeks and see if I am still gaining.

This guy was making great continuous gains but ended up doing 150 minutes /day, which I can’t do.

This is part of Wad’s conclusion;
"I think its a mistake when guys chase that "soreness" or fret about not feeling "fatigued" after a workout - whatever that means. I think the "fatigue" that really matters is that which is accumulated over many weeks & months, providing that the tissues are fully healing between sessions. I also suspect that his 2 daily sessions (which he started doing near the end) may have been too much, hence no more gains. Once his AM session exceeded 75 minutes, he should’ve (in my opinion) taken a few months off, then came back at only 20 minutes. I’ll bet the gains would’ve jumpstarted."

I think I have to agree with that, except I would probably decon break at about 60 minutes, thats as much time as I would care to put in daily.

3-4in/Hg works best for me and that’s long duration pumping (30 minutes or more) and there’s no lymph buildup.

Over 4in/Hg and I start getting an extremely bad donut effect in my inner foreskin.

They also sell x-ray glasses in every comic book, but that doesn’t mean they actually work.
You need a better argument than that.