Why Near Infrared is better than FIR and US

NIR/ FIR full body significantly improved my vaso dilation .. Veins are looking thicker everywhere including my arms, legs and penis. Blood pressure slightly reduced, healing accelerated. It’s a pain to do this daily for 1 hour and I consistently did it since my last post (3-4 months, possibly more). I also use a small FIR pad during ADS. I see positive indicators, but it’s hard to come to any clear conclusions. I plan to keep doing NIR/FIR - it appears to have many health benefits.

Are there any updates on the therapy?

In the Italian section, I am conducting a shared experiment using NIR for 30 minutes a day with irradiation at 850 nm at maximum level. It seems that alternating the therapy with periods of rest promotes several benefits, including more frequent and powerful erections. Perhaps, it is necessary to allow the penis to regain its functions naturally, without auto-induced stimuli, although the therapy, when followed with the proper timing, can be extended for a lifetime. At the moment, I still have limited data to confirm this hypothesis with certainty, but the experiment is ongoing.

In short, yes, you did limit yourself by doing long periods of unheated hanging and clamping. This is not a speculation at this point. Literally every piece of pertinent literature on tissue behavior confirms this.

The good news is that it is only temporary. When you or anyone else is in this situation, simply quit pulling on, pumping, or jelqing your penis. Within 3-4 weeks, the elasticity of the TA returns closer to baseline. Within 6 months the tissue density mostly returns to normal. And a year later most everything will likely be similar to where it was before you started, in terms of tissue propensity to deformation. The remaining wild card is whether the body builds a more sensitive trigger which is not uncommon for bodily function. For example, it is not uncommon for a mild allergy to turn into a severe allergy upon repeat exposure. Likewise, a mild exposure to a virus can be used to trigger a systemic immunity to later infection. It is very possible that once a ligament has toughened, the condition is triggered more quickly at lower stress in the future. So upon returning, you really want to be extra careful to avoid triggering a toughening response again.

However, the reason that I remain skeptical of this hypersensitivity theory is the propensity for dislocated joints to remain prone to future dislocation. Unlike tendons, after some type of deforming event, ligaments seem to be fine reverting back to their baseline tissue character without returning to their baseline shape. Tendons seem prone to permanently fortifying themselves after deformation. I’m optimistic that given enough time, the TA would fully revert to its baseline character. I should note, however, that this doesn’t mean the BPEL or EG would not reduce during a very long decon. However there are minor things that I suspect may help to mitigate this.

1) Low intensity red light therapy. Nothing that will heat the structure though.
2) Edging daily, preferably without the use of porn. Just your imagination is best and be gentle and slow. You want a full erection and good blood flow but no ejaculation. This will also help maintain EQ throughout your older years.
3) Go commando if you can and wear loose pants. Just allow everything to hang. Another technique is to wear briefs or boxer briefs but pull your penis and scrotum completely out through the fly. Depending on the construction, you may have to clip some stitching so that it isn’t choking or chafing.
4) Avoid sitting for prolonged periods or with a posture that causes your pants to ride up and secure your penis tightly, thus holding the TA in a retracted state.
5) If you have the willpower with your girl, don’t ejaculate every time you have sex. Get yourself right to the edge multiple times during the session and make sure she’s fullfilled, but only allow yourself to orgasm once a week or so. You’ll notice that your flaccid is generally much more full and heavy.

Right now, I’m researching a topical cream that can very likely both delay the TA toughening in the first place as well as de-toughen it after the damage has been done. Unfortunately, I have no intention of jumping through FDA hoops and taking it commercial. So, it’s very unlikely that it becomes commercially available in the near future. However, if I can satisfy myself that it’s safe, I wouldn’t be against sharing the details here so people can self-experiment. At present, the compounds used to make it are also quite expensive. Imagine a small tube of cream costing around $600 and maybe only lasting a few months.

I measured the heat of two NIR pads using a temperature probe to track the increase in temperature over a 30-minute period. The results show that one pad reached a peak of 49.3°C, while the other hit 53.7°C. The critical threshold of 43°C was surpassed after about 12-13 minutes. I wonder if such prolonged exposure of the penis could heat the tissues beyond a safe level, turning potential benefits into risks. Considering that tissues take time to absorb heat and that the penis, unlike other parts of the body, lacks sufficient vascularization to quickly dissipate thermal energy, could this make it more susceptible to overheating? Does anyone have insights or experience with this?

Measurements, along with photos, are included in my post. Il mio primo dispositivo NIR: foto e recensione (p. 4)

Very nice ImNormoEquipped.

The translation is this:
"NIR Amazon :
Detection duration: 30 minutes
Type of therapy: 850 nm at level 5
Unit of measurement: Celsius
Results: initial Temperature of 25.2°C. After 10 minutes we arrived to 40.0°C. In 15 minutes, the temperature has reached the 44,3°C. The maximum peak was reached after 30 minutes, with a temperature of 49,3°C.

NIR Aliexpress :
Detection duration: 30 minutes
Type of therapy: default 660/850 nm, non-editable (1-LED, 660 nm, and 2 LEDS (850 nm)
Unit of measurement: Celsius
Results: initial Temperature of 28,0°C. After 10 minutes we arrived to 40.0°C. In 15 minutes, the temperature has reached the 44,5°C. The maximum peak was reached after 30 minutes, with a temperature of 53,7°C. "
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Solvay the thread starter said:
"the most effective range is among 810 and 870nm."

The 660nm seems to generate a lot of useless superficial heat that would also show up in a heat probe fast. I experienced that with my 660nm/850nm mix pad too. Last time I checked for 850nm pads I didnt like the options. I think building one myself is theoretically the best option.
Your test shows how gradually the heat increases but I would still think the penis tissue would dissipate it much fast than an inorganic material like metal or a probe.
You would probably get a more close to penis tissue measurement if you put the probe in meat or a sausage ;) . Maybe you try that before you use an urethral probe.

Hi BDAgenda, thank you!

You are right about the heat conduction properties of the penis compared to, for instance, a metallic object. However, it is also true that the penis does not have the same heat dissipation capacity as other body tissues due to its more limited vascularization. In this post, some users used a urethral probe to monitor the internal temperature of the penis after 30 minutes of 850 nm therapy with an NIR pad. The results showed an internal temperature increase to around 40–41°C, an optimal range considering that cellular matrix deformation occurs between 39.5°C and 43°C. However, it should be noted that not all NIR pads reach the same temperature after 30 minutes, and the idea of using the pad both as therapy and as a heating method might be unfounded. From what I’ve read, an NIR pad should not generate heat but rather function solely as a light diffuser. Perhaps it would make more sense to use the NIR pad to promote angiogenesis and then rely on traditional heating methods to prepare the penis for training!

Honestly, my main concern is the same one raised by Kyrpa in the early pages of this post: wouldn’t increasing collagen production thicken the tunica albuginea, subsequently making it more resistant to controlled traction forces?

Too many doubts, doubts, and more doubts!

ImNormoEquipped,
my observation with the 2x850nm/1x66nm pad was using it around a pump. The heat at some point got too much for me. Well below 20 minutes.
This can be due to being in the pump having less of a heat dissipation.(the blood in a pump is also not circulating as easily and thus also less "body cooling").
It still felt beneficial in the expansion quality. But after the pad stopped working I stopped using it. Now for Black Friday I’m trying to shop for a cheap but powerful 850nm again.

I would rather reach the temperature via 850nm as it is a fact, that 660nm is superficial. 850nm NIR will always increase heat too and we know heat alone has an effect on plastic deformation. I’m not just counting at the cells reacting to the radiation like Solvay tried to focus on. I hope, and all science points to it, that 850nm also increases heat deeper in the tissue(septum, tunica).

Fearing 850nm will lead to massive collagen growth in a tight cellular matrix that would prevent growth seems unrealistic. It would suggest that at some point it leads to elasticity so low that you can’t get a proper erection. I highly doubt that especially when you expand the tissue and nothing like this seem to be reported anywhere..
I also strongly believe in the cool down of the elongated tissue at the max stretched size. Lots of info regarding this in healing of tendons. (elasticity can increase due to heat but then when the stretch is removed during heat it will elasticly snap back to the starting size without any plastic deformation)

Forgive me, BDAgenda, I didn’t realize you were using NIR around the pump; I must have read too hastily. Thank you for your feedback, it will definitely be helpful in enriching my Italian section with new information! I had also hypothesized that collagen production wouldn’t make tissues so rigid as to resist controlled traction, but until I have concrete evidence, I can’t completely rule out this possibility. After all, even Solvay, using NIR around the pump, only reported growth of his foreskin. On the other hand, there are other users who haven’t seen any improvements by integrating NIR into different training routines. I don’t know, my friend.. To be honest, I’m personally only experiencing positive results, from increased vascularization to more frequent and stronger erections.

As for your hypothesis, namely that cooling elongated tissues at their maximum expansion is essential to achieving permanent deformation, I agree that it’s a crucial aspect to consider for stabilizing gains. Unfortunately, life is throwing a lot of challenges my way, and I don’t have all the time in the world to experiment with everything I’ve gathered over these past months. However, as soon as I have more freedom, I will put into practice everything I believe to be a valid path to follow, including your valuable suggestions. Thank you for your time, BD, it’s truly appreciated!

I’ve tested myself with a NIR pad that has 2x850nm and 1x660. With all the emitters on, the superficial heat gets way too high. Within 20 min it will get up to 49C.

I’ll be conducting urethral testing soon to determine how high the 850nm lights can get by themselves. In a chicken sausage of appropriate size, the center temp reached 43C after 20 minutes while the superficial temps stayed at 41C.

The sausage is not very analogous to the penis because of the various tissue layers as well as lack of continuous blood flow, however, it provides a decent starting point because if the heat pad cannot heat the sausage, it has no chance of heating the penis with its built-in cooling system.

If the pad cannot reach target temps due to blood flow, it is fairly simple to modestly clamp at the base to dramatically slow the flow. Just have to be careful not to leave it clamped too long and also make sure not to clamp so tightly that it turns purple.

Anecdotally, I can say that simply stretching the penis does in fact reduce blood flow. If you stretch without heat applied, the penis turns white and becomes cold as a result of restricted blood flow.

I personally don’t believe that the red light itself has much effect on the ability to achieve strain. Rather, therapeutic heat and strain rate are 95% of the equation. Red light therapy can indeed increase neocollagenesis, but not in a way that would exceed normal physiological limits and result in a big thick TA. That’s simply not how the body works.

I have observed the same thing when vacuum hanging or extending.

Thank you, Tutt!
As far as I know, the penis does not have the same capacity to dissipate heat as other body tissues. Consequently, its thermal resistance to high temperatures is lower, and the accumulated heat is dissipated more slowly due to its "reduced" vascularization. Based on this, and with certain NIR pads, it might not be necessary to use a clamp to retain blood in the vessels, as these pads can generate sufficiently high temperatures to reach an optimal thermal level within the penis in just 30 minutes.

This raises a question: should NIR be used exclusively for its beneficial effects related to infrared red light, or might it be more advantageous, if feasible, to also utilize it as a heating source? Solvay, for example, used it this way. But what if it were used purely as therapy, separate from its heating capabilities?

It makes sense to believe that exposure to therapy does not increase collagen beyond physiological limits, thereby preserving the elasticity of the tunica albuginea. However, could this condition arise with very long and prolonged exposures, potentially activating, for instance, the TGF-beta growth factor?

thanks for your thoughts.
I also doubt highly that NIR alone will increase Penis size. It might increase penis size by better circulation/Vascularization especially if a person has bad EQ. But for a person who already had "newbie gains" and 10/10 EQ.. seems impossible.
To gain with NIR, Heat and probably also Ultrasound, you still have to do effective PE technique to gain. And even then it’s a game of mm. So NIR can’t be the only testing angle for gaining.

So you have one the pads that can switch of the 660nm? I thought about purchasing one of them as I couldn’t find any 850nm only pads.
To me all the testing seem to show that target temperature can be reached with NIR. As you say, also light clamping, cockring, extending, pumping, all will lower the blood flow. I guess increasing the watts per cm(2) would also help increase heating intensity and speed.
In my case of using a Pump the heat is already contained within the pump giving a higher baseline temperature.(with 660nm too hot) The blood flow feels like it is, depending on vacuum, 20-80% slowed down too.

To me the biggest issue is to increase the efficiency of the light source used. I might buy 850nm LED’s and wire them tightly up to have the whole penis covered with intense 850nm. Price and choosing the right LED is my issue right now.

Has anyone reading these topics knowledge about what LED would be the best? I’m doing some research and guess
I’m debating if I get these(no affiliation or ad from me):
aliexpress.com/item/1005005263702636.html?
But I guess something like this is more powerful(but also more expensive):
aliexpress.com/item/1005004634123869.html?

I think it has some benefit as light therapy, although I am very skeptical that it contributes to gains in this regards unless the person was suffering from low EQ to begin with. OTOH, it could possible contribute to a faster decon period between cycles. The literature would seem to support this idea. But in terms of contributing to gains, I would suspect it is purely from reaching therapeutic temperatures of 40-43C.

Yes my pad can switch off the 660 LEDs. When everything is on, it outputs 200W/cm^2. This is plenty powerful. Also the power can be amped up a bit by grabbing something like metalic duct tape and running strips between the LEDs to keep the light waves reflecting back and forth until absorbed by the tissue.

Your idea of a dense field of 850nm emitters would work well. Just make sure you can modulate the wattage. They are very powerful and penetrate the tissue surprisingly well.



 Exactly! According to the information provided by Solvay, an optimal power level would be >200 W/cm². However, most of the NIR pads mentioned in this discussion do not exceed 100 W/cm². If you know of a good NIR pad that meets this technical requirement while maintaining a good quality/price ratio, please let me know!

As for the LEDs, unfortunately, I can’t be of much help my knowledge in that area is quite limited. That said, you’re conducting a really interesting experiment, and I’d love to stay updated in the future when you decide to put it into practice!





 Yes, I agree with you. Although the scientific evidence is still preliminary, it’s already clear that using red infrared light alone, without the addition of heat or exercise, will not bring any significant benefits to the penis. Those who claim otherwise likely don’t fully understand this technology and are probably already following a PE routine.
Red infrared light is primarily designed to accelerate healing processes and stimulate collagen production in the target cells. Its effectiveness depends on the irradiation power, which determines how deeply it can penetrate, but the core principle remains the same.

One of the main questions I have concerns angiogenesis. Do you have any information about that?