PE4F High Pressure Pumping: thoughtfulgold

Sorry I wrote a long post but “the dog ate my homework” (computer timed-out?) This one typed a bit quicker.

If the curve correction is a priority, then definitely stay in the 2” tube. You can still get girth gains, right up to the point where you get jammed against the walls. A good trick is to heat one side of the tube when pumping, your concave side. That will give disproportionate length gains in your CCs, which is what you want.

Also, keep all manual work to a light minimum. No jelqing etc, just light stretching carefully and straight out. All the proper stretch forces that cause the tissue changes should come from the pumping, where the highly controlled forces cause the straightening. It’s ok to do some light massaging etc.

Also, please be careful with the big forces involved. In that 2 inch tube pumping at 28inHg produces approx 44 pounds of length pull force!
LPF = diam * diam * inHg * 0.39

You only need as much force as it takes to soften up your tissues, and then you can start to train lighter. Anyway I’m sure you know that. You’re an expert PE-er who is methodical and careful so that warning is for readers I guess.

Jjhg
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The “heat the concave side of my penis” oriented in the cylinder is genius! I don’t know how long it would have taken for that idea to pop into my mind. Thank you for that, Romeo.

I assume, due to my current shape and girth I could probably squeeze. 25” maybe a touch more MSEG out of the 2” while working the curve. At a flat 6” MSEG now anything would be nice, since I’ve basically hovered here for over a year with fluctuations.

All proper forces from pumping? So, what value would erect bends fulcrumed over an axe handle have? Something to do on non pump days or a technique most efficient if utilized in another regiment entirely? I had clamped erect bends planned as the precursor on heavier workout days. This was based on figuring it would take me some time to work up to 5+ second pulses at 20Hg+ so I wouldn’t be solely relying on the pump for extreme levels of force as I condition for it. After conditioning for the pumping I assume I could remove the bends and simply modulate the forces needed with the pump to whatever extent I deemed safe and fit.

Thank you for the compliments. I am careful, quite so. Usually. The glans burn really screwed up my mostly relatively light and minor injury record. *rolls eyes*

It appears I have some missing piece sort of questions. I hope your long post didn’t have those answers. The site was down a while and i guess you timed out at that time in the last hour or so.

I don’t believe that calculation. It sounds way too high. diameter in the formula in what Unit??? it should be meter right? that would make diameter 0.05m or so.

I got this:

0.025^2*16,9kPa*0.39=4.12N

1Newton is around 100g so 412g of tension pulling on the penis.

Which is exactly how it feels like, a totally insignificant pull when pumping 5inHg in a 2 inch diameter pump.

Pumping almost 6 times the pressure would then be 2.4kg of force pulling on the penis.

And I’m not using your formula I’m just using the vaccum pressure in kPa which is N/m^2 and taking that times the area of the circle the cylinder forms against the pubic bone in m^2. I might be totally wrong but this is how I remember pressure works just a force on a given surface area.

Or is it more correct to take the surface area of the penis in the tube multiplied with the vaccum in the chamber?? But that would not be a uniderctional force but a force in all directions which is how I thought a penis pump worked. I just have a hard time believing pumping actually does anything in the form of pulling on your penis with significant force outwards from the body.

I do not believe penis pumping causes significant ligament pull like an extender or penis hanging or we would have been able to find anecdotes of ligament injury from pumping, never heard of it not even from bathmate users (bathmate is 17inHg fully pumped).

RomeoPlus,

Also, doing some basic geometry, looking at a 1/8” diameter hole, it is 4x the area of a 1/16” hole. This says to me that perhaps 4 of the smaller hole could be used to create preset pressure thresholds when covered as an incomplete group. I would line them up vertical with the natural shape of the tube so that simply sliding my finger up would cover the next hole up to all 4 creating full vacuum. This would really have to be calibrated with a gauge affixed to the cylinder directly to be of any truly exact use of course. I do have an extra one, that I decided was too much trouble (and I will end up drilling into this 2” tube anyway at this rate). It’ll be sticking out of the side looking crazy, sealed and secured with liquid steel epoxy but the actual questions here is simple.

Would 4 holes at 1/16” work the same as single hole at 1/8”? Assuming it does (as the surface area of 4 holes at 1/16” diameter and one at 1/8” are very similar) would this hole system work to create preset pressures, assuming I cover 1, 2 or 3 holes at one time with my finger and not full vacuum all 4? Also, drilling only 3 would create a higher resting “safe” pressure, correct?

I find 9/64ths a touch low on resting pressure. I wish I had my 1/8” drill bit for the original hole in my 2.25” cylinder…but I digress.

Hey,

Good to know. Thx for the clarification.

In my opinion I would think more than twice of milking the cylinder at high pressure.
I experimented a lot with milking techniques when I was pumping.
Of course I used low pressure, but I think the effects don’t differ compared to a higher range.
To be honest, I think it is asking for a injury.
The likelihood of discolorations, glans numbness and capillary burst will increase a lot.
Your conditioning is there, but I wouldn’t risk it.
It is not worth it.

In my experience pumping injuries can build up slowly over time and aren’t immediately obvious.
Keep that in mind when any signs of numbness or needling occur while pumping even though pi’s are positive after the session.
This can be tricky. I “coached” some guys at another forum and happens more often than you think.
Afterwards when looking back, there is in most cases that one session that was too intense a couple of weeks back that backfires.

In your case I would concentrate on improving your seal/padding and execute the routine as intended.

Generally I used milking to get fresh blood in at very low pressure and get some extra expansion when pumping up to my workout pressure again.
In my case I experienced bad PI’s in the long run when I started milking at my workout pressure (4-5 inHG).

Instead of milking at higher pressure, I preferred to change the pressure constantly with my hand pump to get that milking effect and use short pressure spikes for a couple of seconds.
This way the pumping is much safer as you can control the force much better and it can be done more precisely and good sessions can be therefore easily repeated .

You are a very advanced pe guy and I trust your expertise.
But sometimes it is good to be more cautious especially when doing extreme routines.

Maybe I am wrong.
Just my 2 cents.

Great answer.
I observed that a lot of people don’t gain with pumping because the body feedback is not interpreted right or completely overlooked and the mindset is too passive.

Most pump gainer I know get a kick out of pumping and stay as hard as possible in the cylinder.
Especially guys who are used to hanging and extender think that attaching a pump will do it and are too passive using it.
Using a electric pump especially can lead to that kind of “laziness”.

Every second I spend in the tube I tried to get bigger.
Somehow like getting that extra rep in the gym.
It is difficult to explain.
That is why I am thinking that guys with a athletic background or love the feeling of pumping are more likely the ones that gain using a pump.

A very popular product in Germany is the Vitallus pumping system.
It is not working well because of the reasons I mentioned before.
Unfortunately the reviews are written in German, but the pattern is there (extender approach, low EQ while pumping and constant pressure).
Passive pumping is not very efficient. It is not a extender.

I think dynamic pumping and especially heat are essential for successful pumping.
When I wrapped a heating pad around my cylinder, I started to gain.
Moreover recovery is a must. 1/1 or 1/2 seems to work for most guys.
If you do short routines daily, it might work too (i.e 5x5x3 dld style).
Another overlooked aspect is the pressure range.
Pumping takes time and it is better to gradually work your way up.
Give it time and don’t rush things.
If you get out of your cylinder below 70% EQ after your set, shorten your set, lower pressure or work on your stamina (ballooning, kegel etc).
Do more sets than a few in a inefficient manner.

All in all, I rate pumping as very demanding in comparisons to jelqs, bends, uli etc
So there are a lot variables why pumping might not work.

Converting your numbers to pounds: At 30 PSI you calculate a force of 5.28 lbs (2.4 kg x 2.2 lbs/kg) in a 2 inch tube. At 5 PSI, you calculate a force of 0.9 lbs in a 2 inch tube. I don’t think that’s right.

First, let’s convert inches of mercury to pounds of force per square inch. 30” hg is a perfect vacuum, and atmospheric pressure is 14.7 pounds per square inch. So at 30” hg, you’d have 14.7 PSI. For another way to check on that, you can go here: xxx.convertunits.com/from/in+Hg/to/psi and enter the inches of mercury and it will tell you how many PSI it works out to. For example, 29” hg is 14.2 PSI, or 5” HG is 2.5 PSI.

From geometry class, recall that the area of a circle is pi * r * r, where pi = 3.1416 and r = the radius of the circle. For a 2” diameter tube, the radius is 1” and the cross sectional area of the tube is 3.1416 square inches (3.1416 * 1 * 1).

The force on your penis is the number of pounds per square inch times the number of square inches. For a perfect vacuum and no friction in the tube:

14.7 PSI x 3.1416 square inches = 46 pounds of force. Your number is 5.28 pounds of force. If you use a bigger tube, the force on your penis goes up as the square of the radius of the tube.

Another example: if you have been using 5” hg in a 2” tube, you’ve been using 7.8 pounds of force. Your number is 0.9 pounds of force.

As a practical matter, we don’t quite reach a perfect vacuum, and there is some friction in the tube. So we probably don’t quite reach 46 pounds of force with the PE4F technique. But it is still very, very high.

Milking and the pressure increases caused are both predictable and chartable. Installing a gauge directly onto this tube and using a series of holes to more closely control pressure will let me chart exactly how much pressure increases when I tug on the tube and with what level of safety hole occlusion. I elaborate on my theory regarding safety hole pressures in a post a couple above this one.

Some level of control is always obtainable, if you look hard enough. Experimentation is key, as is prudence. But you can’t learn without taking some level of risk. Using gauges and staged levels of safety holes is a good way to start. Others have advised me of high pressure pumping and milking the tube as a legitimate method to prevent some level of cylinder bite. I’m not the first and there are some people who’s opinions I trust enough for a benefit of a doubt on principle.

That said, your warnings are appreciated pe_pe.

Hey,

thx again for clarifying.
Now I am fully getting what you are trying to achieve.
Didn’t read the last post carefully enough.
I thought you wanted to do the milking with a closed valve/circuit/hole to be able to use max vacuum levels you couldn’t otherwise (because of cylinder slamming and pain).

Great work around to relieve some pressure on the base and maybe a great work out for your arms too ;)
I saw the danger in applying two forces going into opposite directions causing unpredictable pressure because of the closed “circuit”.

Really curious about the results and conclusions.

ps: Just read about your injury. Get well.

Thanks I’m sorry I mixed up the numbers I can usually calculate things but elementary physics failed :P

So this 46lbs of force surely wont be pulling on your penis like 46lbs attached directly to it right? I mean the penis doesnt have a perfect flat surface matching the base area of the cylinder? It has to also be pulled to the sides right or is all the pressure exerted as trying to escape the tube?

Basically it feels extremely improbable to me that the casual bathmate user maxing their tube would be pulling 25-50lbs of force. I do not believe that is the equivalent of hanging 50lbs from your penis with a BiB.

Also I got sore from using PMP which is 3lbs max pulling on my penis. I could not hang 8lbs. Using my 2” pump at 5hg feels 0 in the ligaments so I guess its a totally different kind of force in the vaccuum cylinder rather pulling on the penis in all directions making it swell outwards and want to expand into a balloon like objects explode in vaccuum? Or is a penis pump vaccuum force with an upwards direction? I do not feel any pull in the ligaments when pumping. Sorry for being confused with elementary physics here but I forgot.

Or is it like if youdont pack the cylinder vaccum pressure like in a vacuum elevator is exerted on the pubic bone and vaccum pressure on the penis is exerted like an object exploding in space. And if you pack the cylinder there will be pull on your penis like in a vaccuum elevator?

So example a 2 inch dildo in a 1.99 inch cylinder assuming no friction and the dildo compressing to fit the diameter will be sucked up into it. A 1.7 inch dildo in the 2” cylinder will not be sucked up into it? Assuming a vaccuum force higher than gravitys force on the dildo?

Crap just realized how a vaccuum cleaner works :( so in other words a cylinder works like hanging?

If pumping really is the equivalent of hanging there really is no need to go through the trouble of attaching a weight to the penis, just using a penis pump is way easier. Hmm

Sry for spamming but I realized vaccuum cleaner is the opposite thing air rushing into to fill the vaccuum created by the cleaner or is it just rushing air pulling on stuff?

That’s right. The vacuum exerted on your penis is 14.7 PSI in all directions. More square inches, more total force. One of the things PE4F suggests is using a tube you pack. If you do that, you are putting much less force on the sides of your penis, because expansion is limited by the sides of the cylinder. And some of the force on your glans is transferred to the sides of your penis due to friction. That’s why a cylinder that you pack will put less pressure on your pubic bone - friction is transferring the force to the sides of your penis instead of the pubic bone. And friction from the cylinder distributes the force over a bigger area, making it more tolerable.

But it is still a hell of a lot of force.

Thanks a lot so basically a ”force is applied in a perfect sphere around every cell in the penis” I got so confused thinking pumping might rip my penis off with huge force like hanging.