PE4F High Pressure Pumping: thoughtfulgold

Thank you for the well-wishes. It is appreciated.

I have given every aspect of this much thought and continue to do so. I’ll be buying epoxy so I can do the drilling this week and mount the auxiliary gauge then check calibrations. I want control in this experiment. I don’t like guess work and I love seeing results that can be quantified. More control is ultimately less risk in skilled and experienced hands.

I will diligently post my conclusion and results, rest assured.

You could easily get 0.25” girth, maybe more. Because of the large length stretch force it means your penis might be stretched longer and thinner while at high vacuum. So a tight pack on that 6.28 girth tube might net you a fraction more than 6.28 in normal EG. I know it sounds counter-intuitive but it’s true.

I know absolutely nothing about erect bends. :) What I have seen from observation is that guys doing a lot of manual work, ie years of gains from manual work, commonly get curvature. Guys doing years of pumping (snug tubes) seem to have very straight tube-like shape. My experience was that after gaining length from a pump-only routine in a snug tube my shaft got very straight. I worry that the right hand dominance etc in manual work is impossible to balance and forces are never even. But the pumping forces are very controlled and manageable.

Re your tube drilling questions; a group of small holes should give you the ability to control the operating vacuum. But maybe an adjustable valve would be better? I think someone here already posted about that? A valve would let you set the open hole vacuum.

And re the gauge; I wouldn’t bother with large screw fittings, I would drill a small hole in the penis tube top endplate, then glue in a tiny piece of hard pipe like a little barb fitting. Then just push the gauge hose on to that. But you might have a better solution.

You made some good points there! Re the milking dangers; I don’t think that will be a problem with this PE4F technique because the vacuum won’t change much as the tube is milked. It’s not like a normal sealed tube at say 6 inHg, that might go up to 10 inHg when milked hard. This system the pump is running and will overpower any milking changes, ie if set to 28 inHg than milking it won’t make a difference, and with the thumb hole open at say 5 inHg then milking won’t change that either.

But I agree with you about the dangers, high forces on the penis should be respected and (like you said) trauma can accumulate and sneak up on you. Being consistent with vacuum and minutes is important and making only small changes, then carefully looking for any symptoms.

Thanks too for mentioning that German Vitallus system, I had not seen that.

Having found out my tape has stretched, it explains the smugness of the tube. It’s 6.125” actually and I suspect I will do as you say and squeeze out some girth before moving back to the 2.25” tube.

My curve is congenital and I do erect bends against the curve when I do them. My question is basically are you saying advanced manual exercises should be avoided at this point if I’m working PE4F pumping to correct my curve? I had planned on integrating bends and clamping into this cycle. Would It be best not to?

Yes, but I do have a limit somewhere in my budget for PE. Additionally, while a valve is good, I want to use the hole series as anyone getting into PE4F could mimic it with the same basic drill. I like the idea and want to play with it. Further, holes in a tube can be plugged permanently if I do decide a valve is the future.

I could go with just a 1/4” female 1/8” barbed fitting, glue it in, screw the gauge into the fitting. It’s a $4 fitting I’ve used before. It would save drilling a big hole and I could get away with gorilla glue instead of epoxy for the seal I think. I just want to install the gauge if I’m going to play towards certain pressure patterns.

To srsabpe and ErnieBanks, thanks for checking my math. I’m having to type in a rush because of this time-out thing, so it was a rushed calc.

Re the tube physics we could end up in a long debate, ie like Ernie’s point about the wall friction. What I think happens is that wall friction seems to have a greater effect at low vacuum levels. You can see it happening with pumped length changes at lowish vacuum levels. But once the vacuum gets cranked up I think it has enough force to cause deformation of the skin-wall interface and the skin will then slide.
And once that skin can deform and move (especially when lubed) the packed penis behaves like a piston in a tube so the full “piston pull force” is exerted, friction negated. Basically the same physics as if the penis was being pulled from the glans skin (imagine hanging, with a vacuum cup on the glans).

I’m really not the guy to be giving any advice re manual work. :)
The thing that worries me is that any manual bends etc have the potential to cause an effect, and the effect might interfere or cause some rebound or reverse effect, on the pumping.
I’m absolutely convinced the pumping alone will be very effective for straightening. But if your manual bends also effect the CCs that might trigger a toughening or scarring or some weird negative vicious cycle (we’ve all had those).

So my initial suggestion was to use just the pumping forces as the main thing that will causs the changes in the tissues, so there are less variables. You will have access to a surplus of force when doing high vacuum pumping, I would focus on that alone. You won’t NEED to add additional straightening forces, but you know a lot more about the manual work than I do, so maybe I’m just fearful in ignorance.

Hey guys,

thx for explaining all the stuff in detail.
Great read and input.

I was very skeptical about your observations about milking using a electrical pump.
So I checked my old pump gear and after further inspection I realized that I used a check valve without knowing it.
Always thought I used a open t-line valve. That explained a lot.

Just bought a cheap plastic t-line valve and milked at low pressure with my converted aquarium pump.
I can confirm your findings.
Mea culpa.

In german forums there are a lot of weird “pe”- practioners that love hardcore sm-type exercises.
Especially fulcrums are their most beloved exercise ;)

I think it is playing with fire. A lot of guys got fibrosis, bleeding urethra or peyronies disease using them.

I don’t know if you are born with a curve or if it is a consequence of a injury.

If you are born with it, I would consider bends.
If it is injury based, I would avoid bends.
It is like fighting fire with fire.
Especially erect fulcrum bends are the most dangerous exercise I know.
You can literally break your penis.

I never really injured myself, but once.
When I clamped the first time, I used way too much force.
Every time I used a cockring afterwards, my penis bend to the left to the point that I couldn’t wear one any more.
Normal erections weren’t affected.
After one year of experiencing this bend without improvement (to be honest it got a bit worse),I in-cooperated myofascial unlocking with IR-Light as a warmup.

After a couple of months my condition improved a lot. Today I am completely healed and I can use a adc and do ulis/semi-erect bends/squeezes without any problems.

My problem was that a small area of my corpus cavernosum wasn’t driven at 100 %.
This caused my curve .
Myofascial unlocking ( pe_pe - Pre-Stretching Tunica to allow more Girth Expansion ) really helped to get that area back to its original level.
Later on I combined the exercise with a slight bend to improve my temp gains for my tunica work.

It is a great exercise, but it takes some time until first subtle effects show up (guesstimate 3-4 weeks).

Another option could be ved pumping (peyronies disease forum).
I got interested in PE4F style of pumping because there are some similarities between the two approaches.

Generally I wouldn’t do any bends, fulcrums or bundled exercises on intense pump days.
A good stretch to help pumping is the 2-P stretch imo.
It is a very popular stretch in Germany and very overlooked in the US pe-community.
I think they are called tunica tugs.
The difference is that you grip the base with a grip of your choice (v-, ok grip etc) to cancel out any lig involvement at the base and perform with the other hand a standard stretch.
Next level would be a tunica tug moving your hands away from each other.
A lot of people like to do bundled stretches too before pumping.

As I like them generally for girth work, I think they are not well suited before pumping for several reasons.

Instead of clamping I would prefer high EQ jelqs, squeezes and cockring ballooning/clamping (i.e with a cockring like the zizi power stroke). Similar temp gains, lower risk, better for keeping the pump temp gains (blood flow) and less need for recovery.

If you can’t generate temp gains to your liking by pumping, I would consider clamping as the main exercise and complement it with pumping. Not the other way around.

Combining pumping and clamping works (i.e king espadas), but if you plan a routine for a longer interval the needed recovery time can increase a lot (especially if both exercises are used in gain intensity). This can lead to a plateau that is hard to break as there aren’t a lot of exercises available creating more intensity ;)

Just a stream of consciousness. I don’t know if this is even appropriate or useful as I don’t have credentials around here.
Just shoot me a pm if you feel spammed.

Myofascial unlocking sounds very useful also. This is extremely promising. This thread has gathered a lot of great information.

This points to doing my lightweight stretching with this myofascial unlocking and working just the pump for now. Manual work seems not as recommended on the heavy side, for working the pump in the high pressure mechanical context. I think this combination has strong potential.

My curve is congenital but I’ll work it with Erect Bends at some other time. I obviously need to give PE4F pumping my full attention.

Your thoughts are very much appreciated.

Due to the narrow profile of the top of the 2” tube, I can’t fit a fitting on there and drill a hole to make the permanent connection very well. I mean I have the option of drilling and running a hose into the hole but I don’t feel that would be the most solid fit. The only thing this operation was for was to get a pressure on idle time in the tube with the safety hole completely uncovered.

I should still have accurate readings with partial coverage of the safety hole(s). I had accurate readings before in the 2.25” tube but the difference is I want to do 4 holes at 1/16” instead of 1 at 1/8” as the surface area of the 1/8 circle and 4 circles at 1/16” is roughly the same. This way I can cover 1, 2 or 3 holes and get preset pressures. I have to let the idle pressure gauge go, it’s too much work. More than I’m willing to do, anyway. It doesn’t seem required, honestly.

A larger diameter tube would have more space up top next to the female cylinder fitting but…that’s not the question at hand. I’m still working with a 2” cylinder for this particular idea of a work cycle.

I still have a couple weeks before I’m willing to consider the whole “Let’s get busy high pressure pumping” thing again, due to the recovery time from the glans burn so I have a fair bit of time to think. Maybe, slim chance, the gauge hooked directly to the tube will become more feasible before it comes time to get back into the saddle with the apparatus. *shrugs*

You could be right. I am sure that there is a way to measure the effect of friction at high vacuum levels, but I haven’t figured it out.

I don’t think the penis can ever behave like a piston in a tube, ever. Because the penis tissue is not inert non-penetrable like a piston head and pressure will be divided all troughout every cell in the penis regardless of wheter it has packed the tube or not. Considering the extreme implications if this was not the case it seems even more unlikely the penis could ever behave like a piston in a tube. This would mean a lubed up penis would suddenly transform to a piston the second it packs the tube and would be pulled on with a uniderictional force upwards in the cylinder, not going to happen.

To Thoughtfulgold, re adding a gauge fitting; What ID is the hose to the gauge? I’ve done something similar before with a 3/16 ID hose. I drilled the tube and glued in a small piece of brass tubing, just over 3/16 OD. Then the hose pushed onto that, like a small barbed fitting (but obviously not barbed). If you drill right near the outer edge of the 2” tube, at a slight angle, the new hose should not interfere with the quick release fitting in the middle of the tube.

To ErnieBanks, re the tube wall friction; It’s hard to do any scientific style tests. But what I’ve noticed is with low vac pumping (under 6 inHg) and a packed tube there is a lot of wall friction, because the pumped penis length will be different at different times, like after slight inflates or deflates. It looks like the friction is sticking the penis in the tube at different height positions. But with higher vacuum forces (over 7+ inHg) the pumped length remains very reliable, after allowing a couple seconds for the skin to “squidge” a bit, which it always does because the forces are high enough.
Maybe it’s like pushing something across the floor? Once you use enough force the friction is overcome? It starts sliding, then settles into the final (normal) position?

I’m not exactly sure what you mean here? I think the piston in the tube analogy is sound, for a penis that packs the tube. The pulling forces applied to the end of the penis are simple to understand; square inches of the tube ID times pounds force per square inch (PSI).

I would need a link to the Brass tubing that you talking about. I don’t have the level of expertise with this kind of device that you do.

The gauge fitting is 1/4” male. Not a hose fitting but a brass fitting.

Thanks, TG, for the clear instructions. I had a question about the size of the tubing and the fittings, though.

In Post #1, you tell us to get 5/16” vinyl tubing. In post #4, you get a pressure gauge that uses 3/8” tubing (and fittings). When connecting to the cylinder, you recommend vacutech fittings that use 1/4” tubing. Finally, to make it all work, you then add a 3/8” x 1/4” mender.

The airflow from the pump is going to be limited by the smallest diameter opening. In this case, that is probably the inside diameter of the 1/4” vacutech fittings on the cylinder. If you were to do it all over again, what size tubing and fittings would you recommend? It seems to me that the answer would be to use 1/4” tubing and fittings throughout, but I’m not sure.

Then in the quote below, you mentioned that you spent $80 on parts that you did not use. Are any of the unused parts still included in your instructions?

I looked up the pressure gauge that TG recommended on Amazon, and then looked at the specs on the part. The specs say that the orange tubing connected to the gauge is 3/8” hose.

On the question of friction, I must admit it has been awhile since I took Newtonian physics in college. But I remember that friction is measured as a force that resists movement. And the amount of friction is the amount of force that it can resist before it reaches failure. So if your penis can resist slipping at 6” hg, but slips when you go over 7” hg, then you could calculate the force on your penis in PSI at 6” hg, and the force at 7” hg, and know that the friction is between those two numbers.

Here’s another example. When we built our house, the structural engineer gave us a design for the house foundation that required us to drill holes into the bedrock and fill them with concrete and rebar. He had to calculate the bearing strength of each pier two ways - one as a load bearing pier, using the diameter of the pier and the strength of the bedrock. The other way was as a friction pier, calculating how much friction existed between the pier and the bedrock.