Igigi's quest for the foot long with UltraSound Therapy

So?
Still a car enthusiast will not go to a speedway with a stock KIA expecting to win others. There is no logic nor valid reasoning behind refusing to utilize available technology to improve the performance of that vehicle, IF that individual is really interested in that hobby/sport.

In the case of bodybuilding many will claim health. I call ignorance. More people die by stuffing themselves with McDonalds or smoking or drinking. Anabolic steroids related deaths are caused by underlying conditions aggravated by anabolic steroids, but the steroid did NOT cause the condition. Same situation as guns. Guns dont kill. People with guns kill.

Actually there have been studies connecting the steroid abuse to the dose dependent correlation with heart related issues. So deaths can be steroid abuse related no doubt.

One being a abnormally long QT - interval, found to cause irregular rhythm and elevating drastically the sudden cardiac death risk.
Pathological changes in the left venticular mass being the source for these issues.
The study of Dr Tuomo Karila indicating the dosing and the duration of the cycles and overall abuse being in correlation with the pathological changes.
Though the changes being mostly reversible with light regimens, the combo of HGH and AS at high doses being the suggested source of irreversible pathological alterations.

Personally have ruined my testicles with heavy dosing, relying on TRT after the life in bodybuilding. Lost couple of friends already and another bunch of them having kidney transplants. The list of permanent AE’s goes on as there is a plethora of former BB’s left unable to become father with natural methods etc.

There are consequences of course having only a little time under the limelight. Is it worth it, to me not anymore. We used to think that better to have a day as a lion, than a lifetime as a mouse.
Today there should be enough knowledge available to make the decision about the priorities, if one is ready to put the things on scale.

Saying all of that I need to calm you guys down as there is no need for being passionate about it. Going natural way there is no heroism on it, either there is nothing reprehensible when taking the another road.

I was proud to call myself already a bodybuilder when I was fourteen years old natural skinny boy. I was as proud as well, standing on the rostrum body full of substances and having taken lifethreaning measures to stand there 20 years later. The day as a lion.

Peace my friends both you are equally right equally wrong. Have loving Christmas.

Thanks for a very insightful post, Kyrpa.

I think especially in a PE forum we can agree that longer AS use/abuse (there is a thin line there), especially without the medical supervision it should ideally entail, is rather counter-productive to the male reproductive system lots of info out there.

I have never used AS, but admit that for a while and intermittently I used hGH, didn’t go to the doctor for 2 years, and suddenly my PSA levels shot up to 4.0 (from previously being negligible) in my mid-40s. Whether it was related or not I can’t scientifically establish, but when I immediately quit, doubled up on Lycopene and Saw Palmetto - I was good the year after. Odd that, but different explanations are possible.

I have spent a lot of time in gyms over my lifetime, and have had hardcore bodybuilding, very good friends. They often tried to talk me into going that extra mile because they saw “potential”, but I never did it. I prefer my frame anyhow - I am very muscular but can also do stuff like triathlons on the side because I love the outdoors… and when was the last time anyone saw a true bodybuilder run 20 miles? :-) And believe me, I get a lot of attention when I run with my shirt off, over 30 years of diligently doing weights and good nutrition does that.

I also think it cheapens bodybuilders’ effort to think all it takes is pump some weights and take AS - their dedication and discipline and intelligent approach is what commands respect, the AS part is just an unfortunate mandate given competitive pressure. Unfortunately, like you, and given my age, I have seen or heard about early deaths and severe health issues. Heart issues and suicide and other stuff. I know it doesn’t have to be that way, but the problem is the lack of medical directive and supervision, the self-administration which pushes people from controlled use to abuse, etc. Unfortunate.

Naturally, every person is responsible for their own decisions and intelligently study the information that is out there.

Happy holidays and health and prosperity to all Thunders’ members!

Thank you for that information, much appreciated.

I promised to come back to this after Christmas, so here we are.

I did analyze the tables you came up with and over all you have made the most out of the protocol to date. Top results with the BPFSL hands down.
It is because right from the start you had the therapeutic temperature pretty much covered with the dual transducer setup.

Early on the process you had a massive gain on the BPFSL and the rest of the campaign would have been rapidly dampened slope, if not the involuntary break had stopped the period temporarily. At early stages the occasional poor results can be attributed on technical issues and blister formation(A)
We need to understand that not every session will be successful, there can be always something happening taking the operation down.

The second coming got back into rails as well and during this part of the period you made wrong decisions with the loading(B,C).
If not going for load increases and more importantly excessive loads there should not be those down slopes at all I suppose.

For me the heated phase loads up to 4.5 kg are on the limit already. If not reaching the load slowly , like I reckon you did, these loads would not be producing the desirable strain at the given time. You are operating with loads responsible of tissue stiffening and without the therapeutic temperature would not yield a lot of strain if any.
Let alone going straight to 4.5 kg or 5.0 kg as you did without slowly ramping up, the TA tissue responds as it naturally does by stiffening.

That is the nature of the structure of the penis TA , the ligamentous skeleton of the penis is supposed to stiffen against the pressure during the erection both structurally and but the collagenous material as well. All soft tissues stiffen against the stress after certain threshold has been passed. Viscoelastic materials does that , organs particularly does so.
For being on the safe side I recommend you to produce the load - strain test protocol for plotting out the load -strain curve.
It will convince you to keep on the safe side with the load , which is under 4.5 kg for sure. I would go lower when limiting the load for preventing the blistering as well.

If you had not blistered your self the period would be covered similarly to me and others way sooner. Looking at the graph you should have detected the trends approaching each others from 45 days onwards at latest. Going for the BPEL at that point you would have secured simultaneous BPEL gains coming still not hindering further the BPFSL progress maturing.
For the next to come period 2 you are supposed to expect lower gains and because of that it is even more critical not trying to compensate it with loading increments.
Check out the graphs earlier in your log from my experiences for comparison. If you take the forced pause out of the equation the outcome would be very similar.

Keeping the excel dated during the campaign you can react at the time needed when the tide starts to change, suggesting the time to start BPEL orientated program for the rest of the period. As a curiosity,for the whole period you had 2.7 % average on strain. Taking the zeros out , for the first part it was 3% . There is a room for improving as I have managed to pull out two periods with a average of 3.2%

It is coming very clear that gaining campaigns , especially high-gaining as such, do have an expiration day. After certain point there is nothing to do for extra BPFSL gains.
This can be seen taking a look into gainers stats having data points enough. That can be seen in the extender studies available. The pattern is there if we just recognize it.
We are able to gain at high rate for maximum of three months and the we need to back off. We need extended rest to be able to keep gaining at high level.

I am sure you have found some limitations already and lots of do and not to do, for successful campaign to come in next few months.

Thanks for the data analysis, I am a big believer in that. Have you written about optimal cycling between growth and maintenance theories elsewhere?

I have written a lot about lot in my progress log.
I don´t care about maintenance between the campaigns during active PE career a bit . The thing is if we gain enough during the campaign we can lose some during the break, not a big deal at all. When off, just leave it alone. Get involved in a crazy sex life that is my maintenance plan if any. When getting out of the active enlargement it is a different thing.

Ligaments and tendons , in our case TA are slower to develope in any direction ,not like muscular tissue which gets weaker or stronger really fast in comparison.
It will need total of if TA is adapted to stresses induced by workout loading. If not reverse adaptation having occurred , no more gains are easily available.

Just started with the topic of periodization, there is a lot to come still.
Periodization reasoning part 1

About the rationales of growth due the mechanotransduction and the adaptation processes I have written several times instead. I think latest was just yesterday.

Outstanding analysis Kyrpa. Thank you very much for your time put on. I really appreciate it. Very highly valuable data for me.

Without having your scientific background, just using my common sense I concluded some of my failures during my first period that must be corrected from now on. One mistake was the huge strain during the first few days. I believe that a controlled lower strain with less load could yield more room for a higher average at the end of the period. Second mistake of course was increasing load. I actually debated between Manko’s approach and Tutt’s approach at that point. Manko used to push for higher loads reaching 7kg+ while Tutt is very conservative with loads. I tend to believe that rather I should stay on the conservative side. If no results, perhaps look at other variables.

Anyways, we will see what this next Period in january brings. Still planning to begin January 12th.

Interesting to see once again the reasoning why loads should stay the same ideally.

So in conclusion, the penis should not strengthen when done right? As a result, a load increase is not necessary.

The point where the penis starts to stiffen should stay the same.

If I understood that correctly, highly interesting.

Igigi, Would also love to see your load strain curve. For me, optimum was 3kg as stated in Kyrpa’s thread :-) .

Yeah in terms of load this is one of the many cases in which the existing literature applies and checks out. The few studies done in tendon tissue do not exceed what was experimented by Kyrpa, and also strictly enforced and recommended by Tutt. Tutt was very big into opposing high loads and tension due to the same reason.

We are conditioned to assimilate results of elongation or growth with the perception of a pull. Under basic logic, the harder the pull, the bigger elongation and growth. WRONG. The load required to create ECM reorganization is perceived at a cellular level and not necessarily perceived by the patient as a strong pull.

And here is when the complexity starts. Here is where we start going deeper into the rabbit hole. He we go into unexplored territory, the twilight zone.

I am going to exaggerate so we get the picture. Imagine I have a penis BPFSL of 20cm. Next to it I have a penis of 2 meters BPFSL. Yes I know, this is unrealistic but the point is this: The same load of 3kg applied on the 20cm penis to create a certain strain of let us say 3,2%, WILL NOT have the same effect on the penis that is 2 meters long. 3kg on that penis will be just a stage in the stress relaxation process.

Now coming back to reality. In that same way, that load of 3kg applied on a penis of 18cm BPFSL, will not have the same affect on a penis which is already 25cm BPFSL. The optimal load will change depending on the end result. And the end result is the strain after the therapy has been performed properly. This optimal load must be determined at the beginning of the period before the natural curve of decreasing strain has started.

It seems like the optimal load is a process of stress relaxation, all the way to BPFSL length, plus an “x” percentage of tension that will translate into the 3% range strain desired at the end of the US application.

In order to start getting this valuable data is that we need more members applying this novel technology and share the numbers. First we need to standardize the application process which is already pretty much summarized, then concentrate in gathering all the data key points needed to tabulate and compare. Only then we will start seeing the desired answers to the point that eventually we will have a table in which penises of this range, apply this maximum load. Penises of this other range, apply this maximum load, etc.

To be more precise, looking the load strain curve we have been able to plot, we are operating in the very starting point of the slope. Having parallels to the studies made with tendons and ligaments all of these loads we use are considered to be in the category of low load applications.
There is very few studies actually available operating in a such low stress level environment.
So reading the studies we need to remember to put the results into perspective.
The stress level under 15% UTS, has been categorized as a low stress in couple of the tendon studies.

Meaning 15% of the ultimate tensile stress aka the stress level the tissue breaks under the stress. We don´t know exactly what the ultimate tensile stress for the living stretched penis is.
Highest load used we can be confirm the penis has still managed to bear should be Xenolith hanging for hours with 300lbs. If we take a assumption that the tunica should have broken at 310lbs, the 15% UTS would be 46.5 lbs.

The false presumption you pointed out describes how fully elastic material behaves. If the material being fully elastic the elongation is proportional to the load applied.

That is not the case with any living or even cadaver tissue taken out from human body.
Biological soft tissues are visco-elastic by the nature, which mean they have the ability to stiffen objecting the applied force. At the point of stiffening the elongation has strong time dependent relaxation property, taking certain amount of time to allow further elongation. When the point is exceeded far enough the tissue behaves more proportionally again but the further load increments yield very small additional strain.
Operating under the stiffening point the tissue behaves more or less elastically. That can be seen with the example I brought up with Buckfever on my log.

All extenders used in any medical study work with low enough loads to operate well under or at highest at the point the tissue stiffens up. At the to region of the stress strain curve for healthy penis.

Extending with 1.5 kg I needed two hours to reach 2.1% strain.
Extending with 2.5 kg the time needed for 2.2% strain is only 30-40 minutes.
If I were to use 1 Kg load I should need several hours under the application.

Putting 3.5 kg I would be at the stiffening point already, actually above it and there wont be any additional strain without using the heat in conjunction.
Now using 2.5 kg with the heat I would not necessary be able to achieve the strain I get with the 3.5 kg in 20 minutes. I would need more time, which I am not willing to use for reasons described elsewhere.

We are talking about highly optimized procedure here. The loads have been decided individually to serve the process. That’s we should not put the loads by change or based on wrong assumptions.
We should test how the penis behaves and then use as low as possible loads yielding the best possible strain in the given time.
If we are willing to spend several hours under the application that’s fine with the loads in the bracket of 0.6 -1.5 kg. If we want to make it happen in one hour, we need to use loads higher than that. Therefor we need to know how much we can use before executing the workouts.

No one should copy the loads I am using either, it is your penis you are stretching not mine.
Test it . Stay well under the stiffening point when operating cold. Operate with the load at the stiffening range with the heat.
The low load application operating below or at the stiffening point of the stress strain curve allows the tissue adapt to the stretching force by elongation. Using loads above the stiffening point the primary adaptation responses are stiffening against the force and strengthening as a final product.

If the 18cm or 25 cm behave similarly or not is fully dependent of the PE history and personal features.

Update:

Just to keep everyone informed, although I had planned to start my second period of US on January 12th, it hasn’t been possible due to work. My work requires some traveling at times, and just now as more things and businesses re-open, I have a lot of traveling last week, this week, and the following weeks.

As soon as I see an opening of some 6 weeks I will do my period.

Glad you are working.

One day at a time. Eventually you will have to change your name to “Frank-Footer”. It’s a Journey for sure.

Be Well

LMFAO. I hope that happens some day to all of us. Let us all be known as a new species of Donkeys LOL.

Is there a good guide on here for this method yet or is it still in the experimental? I find this to be the most promising results wise but don’t know if I have the expertise to use a thermometer or do the math without injuring myself if I were to attempt this ultrasound technique. There is a lot of good information in this thread, but it is rather large. Is there anything a little more condensed on this?