Originally Posted by jack100
Marinera,
Thanks for your response. From my point of view, firegoat’s post supports my complaint re the lack of medical research, and, consequently, the large amount of theories vs. Scientific research on this site.
On the one hand, firegoat not only admits his reasoned but anecdotal orientation, but justifies it:
“[The PE ‘micro-tear’ question] does not have any ‘proven’ answers. So what I say is hypothetical. My belief….This is of course my experience….my thoughts….on the likely processes involved….I…do not put forward my hypotheses as points for argument, nor do I have any wish to fight for their validity.”
But on the other hand – with seemingly scientific certainty – he writes:
“Collagen is a highly adaptive tissue.Place too great a load on it, and it will get tougher….Place load/stress on it which is toward the upper end of it’s elastic range, and it will think it requires more ability to stretch, so it will increase it’s elastin component, allowing more stretch.”
“Place load…toward the upper end of it’s elastic range” and “it will increase it’s elastin component”? Is this known? Does firegoat know this? Is there a research source for it? Or is this just a “hypothesis” of firegoat’s, whose “validity” he has no “wish to fight for”?
In my view, this is important to know. Firegoat shrugs off rigorous science by comparing PE to ancient vs. Modern sports medicine, arguing the Greeks arrived at sound practices w/o modern medicine. But who knows what failed practices they had to learn the hard way – in the 20th century, deep knee bends were a standard exercise…until people began to realize it seriously damaged knee cartilage.
My point, remember, is that we PE’ers need more medical science – researchers and research - to advance beyond theories and hit or miss, potentially harmful practices.
The physiology of connective tissue has been extensively studied. It just hasn’t been specifically researched in relation to PE. So although we can draw assumptions of how the penile tissues will behave based on how deep fascia and visceral fascia behave, and the typical behavior of all the many other tissues primarily composed of collagen, elastin and fibroblasts, we cannot say with absolute certainty that if you apply stimulus X, your penis will react with Y.
We can make a very educated guess though.
Most guys when starting PE think we need more medical science. I found this site originally in 2003 while researching post-operative fascial remodelling of the abdominal aponeurosis. I wanted to see if research done on Buck’s facsia could be applied to the abdominal aponeurosis. So you can imagine I was one of the early “we must have more science” proponents.
I thought I should perhaps write a series of articles for the forum on the nature of connective tissue, the structure and composition of the most similar tissues, their properties and functions, the standard medical view of injury process and resultant tissue changes, the role of inflammation in the injury process, the typical remodeling process of connective tissue, the roles of contractile capacity and cellular locomotion in remodeling, the influences on healing of electricity and magnetism, etc.
Then I thought that before I wrote what would end up being a very time consuming book, I’d better experiment for (and on) myself and see if PE actually works. It did. And I found out something else too; the science isn’t important.
I give my patients and clients the concise and accurate advice they need to get the results they came to me for. I don’t give them lots of scientific reasons why they should do something. I will often deviate from what might be considered ‘standard clinical practice’ - if I get good results using certain methodologies on a knee, I will happily try the same things (adapted) on an elbow, even if they are not ‘standard practice’. If I get good results, I’ll use the same methods in the future, whether they have scientific backing or not. It’s why I have a reputation as a ‘last resort guy’ - people come to me when no one else has been able to sort them out.
If you read many of my posts here over the years, that is the approach you will see. PE is simple. What works, works. So in my old posts you will see me say the same things time and again. I have nothing else to say, and have no desire to spend vast tracts of time discussing the ‘science’ in any depth; hence my position of not wishing to ‘fight for the validity’ of my simply stated thoughts.
The pursuit of the ‘science of PE’ is an intellectual pursuit (and valid as that), not a practical one. Just as the electro-muscle stim gadgets have ‘science’ to back them up, even to the point of saying a few minutes of use is the equivalent of a thousand sit-ups :eek: etc., the science doesn’t translate so readily into real world results.
People waiting for all the research on PE to be done so that they can grow their penis in 2.75 years instead of 3 years, need to add that 2.75 years to the X years it will take before the research is done. Assuming they are willing to base their efforts on research that has only been verified on a monkey’s penis by that time. :chuckle:
