Using the ultrasound for therapeutic heat in PE

After the US routine, there should be no turtling. At least that was my experience. I suspect you are missing information about what force you are pulling with. It sounds to me like it’s too much force.

You can get some ideas here:
Digitally controlled constant strain extender

This is not to say that you have to take it that far technically, but you should have the info on how big the force is.

Have you measured the temperatures? The tough guys push a thermocouple into the urethra. I have not dared to do that and measured between US pad and shaft. At least you should make sure that you get into the range of therapeutic heat.

Wow, this was an interesting read.

So much scientific info on elongating our units with the use of US. I have started following Kyrpa’s protocol and looking forward to taking my time mastering the technique.

Thank you Igigi for sharing some of this info outside of this PE forum, hopefully more blokes will learn these less invasive techniques.

I’m in the process of building a translation stage device like Tutt’s and am curious about input on how to use a phantom (since I haven’t yet made one).
People doing OTL US applications have mostly been using phantoms between the shaft and leg, opposite then US application side, but I will be applying dorsally in the device. Tutt has mentioned that he would place a phantom on top, then lay his Autosound device on top and strap it on. Rocco25’s phantom is only a half cylinder, which would work well for placing between leg/shaft in OTL applications where you want to have heat coming from both sides, but in a device where placing and applying US dorsally, is it better to have a full cylinder phantom to cover the whole shaft and maintain heat? Probably with a slice down the side, so you can wrap it around once in the device and then hold in place somehow.

If the latter is the best option, what have you all found to be the best method for securing phantoms and thermocouples in place? I figure I can use a little thin strip of micropore tape to hold the two thermocouples somewhere. Probably off to the side of center on top and bottom, then wrap the phantom, and somehow hold the phantom in place, perhaps with thin rubber bands. Or maybe hold up the bottom with a heat pad underneath which would keep the bottom portion from hanging down and separating from the shaft. I just don’t want a bunch of extra material that will block the US or create a hot spot somewhere. I’m also not sure if a heat pad under the phantom is a good idea or if that would be better if I were only using the half cylinder phantom with a pad on opposite side.

Appreciate any commentary!

The phantom I made is not intended to be between the leg and the shaft, it is meant to replace the leg.

I hope it helps you understand the idea when I explain what the setup looks like. You hang SO. In my case, I use a pulley under my desk with a bucket hanging from it with weights. Igigi has built something like this in his kitchen (igigi - Igigi’s quest for the foot long with UltraSound Therapy).
If you look at your penis from above, this is what you will see with the setup:
- Phantom
- gel
- shaft
- gel
- US transducer

In case of 1 MHz the above setup works fine. At 1 Mhz you have a greater penetration depth and here the phantom helps the sound waves go through the shaft. Without the phantom, there is a risk that the sound waves will reflect on the dorsal side, creating a standing wave => hot spots.

With a 3 Mhz device, you can also work without a phantom and apply the transducer directly dorsally. I haven’t researched this myself, but this is the common state of the art here.

If you also place the phantom dorsally as in your suggestion, but now apply the transducer to the phantom, this also helps, but I cannot tell you whether this is really better. If you cast a cylindrical phantom, slit it at one side, then you can wrap the shaft around it. I would just cast it “tighter” if I were you. The material is quite stiff and if it’s cast to wrap your shaft, then that may be enough. Important: Do not save on the gel.

I’m afraid, however, that the transducer won’t move as well on the Phantom as it does on the skin (stick slip, the gel is displaced….). In your place, I would try to start with the above setup, if your translation device allows it.

By the way: Tape the thermocouple dorsally with some tape before you apply the gel, that works well.

Interesting, thanks. So you’re reaching around to apply the US from underneath while SO?

I do plan on using a 3 Mhz US, so maybe none of this matters, but I figured at least a half phantom, if not full cylinder, would allow for greater heat retention and more easily allow heat to distribute through the whole shaft at a lower intensity US once temp is reached (idea being use higher setting to reach, then lower it to maintain). Having not used it yet, I don’t know how hard it is to maintain a temp without overheating while using 3 mhz, if that’s much of a problem in the first place. My guess would be you might have to move the transducer around more quickly, and I don’t want to have to deal with almost burning one part and losing too much heat on another part back and forth There was a study linked before that showed 3mhz heating even up to 2.5cm deep at a faster rate than 1mhz (which for some reason got almost no responses that I recall), so even with a phantom on top, I should still be able to hit temps easily that way, without having to worry about it taking too long.

Anyway, I hope none of that is too redundant. I’ve tried to read through most of the US stuff, but there’s an endless amount, and can’t recall every little detail. :)

Exactly. US from below and SO.

The subject of 3 Mhz was dealt with either here or in Kyrpä’s thread. I remember the following statements:
- 3 Mhz heats faster and more effectively than 1 Mhz.
- 2 W/cm^2 is the recommended max power density.
- With 3 Mhz you can work directly from above - dorsal. You don’t need a phantom.
and then the tips from the first page:
Main Safety Notions (*)

You make circular movements with the transducer, the transducer should never remain in the same position. How fast? Maybe 1-2 cm/s.
A power reduction after reaching the temperature would also be new to me. With the above-mentioned power density, you reach the therapeutic heat after 20 min w/o overheating. You can attach several thermocouples to determine the temperature curve in the shaft. I think many of your questions will be answered after a few applications. You cannot solve everything in your head. Sometimes you have to gain experience by doing.

(*) I just looked at the date of the post. That was already three years ago. How time flies, unbelievable.

Yes, there will definitely be some learning curve once I begin. The reducing power idea was because I assume you can heat up fairly fast with 3 mhz, and possibly overheat after, especially if starting on a high intensity level so it doesn’t take too long. The 10-20min heat build-up time was mostly from people using the 1 mhz that I saw. That may not really be a factor.

Even if a phantom isn’t needed for 3 mhz heating, would it not still be beneficial for effectively increasing the shaft width? The stretched shaft isn’t that wide, so without a phantom, there’s not a lot of space for a circular motion, plus wouldn’t that require you to put the thermocouples on the sides of the shaft? Or is it OK to just run the transducer over the top of the thermocouple if it is placed somewhere along the dorsal side? Seems like that would be an issue, but maybe not if it’s all covered thickly with gel.

Your concerns are valid. Without a phantom, it is suboptimal with the thermocouples. With 3 Mhz and dorsal application, I would place the phantom ventrally. But you will be frustrated about the handling. It is a mess with the gel. If you apply the transducer from above and have to hold the phantom from below, this will probably annoy you after a certain time. With 1 Mhz and the phantom on top, gravity is on your side: the phantom remains on top even if you don’t hold it.

To be honest, I don’t have an answer to your problem that I can say is good. You can safely run the transducer over the thermocouples, nothing will break and nothing will explode. At the moment of passing over, the reading may probably not be representative. I rather think that it will fail in practice, which is to say that the fixation and the thermocouples in the gel without phantom will be troublesome.
The phantom is a very good holder for the thermocouples.

One of the previous posts said that 3Mhz at 2w/cm2 would cook the penis. I have only been doing 1mhz, but I see some doing 3 mhz. What is the concensus?

Most of us should be able to work with 3Mhz at 2w/cm2 if done cautiously.
Staying at the same spot stationary can cause hot spots very easily though.
The heat develops more rapidly than with 1 MHz.

Keeping the transducer on a constant move practice can be tolerated.
For the non-experienced user, it is safer to work at a lower intensity

Welcome back Legend!

Greetings colleagues. What could be the reason for failing to reach the desired temperature under the silicone sleeve?

Hey Kyrpa,

I did some rounds with the ultrasound pro 2000 edition 1,6 W/(cm^2)

I started in December and I got problems with the ultrasound treatment afterwards, I experienced extreme dizziness and confusion, I felt extremely disoriented and almost passing out, my whole body was trembling (my body’s neurological system seemed disturbed) it triggered anxiety symptoms and serious panic attacks.

I went into all threads and I searched online for ultrasound dangers and I stumbled upon this;

SIDE EFFECTS:

Despite its medicinal and therapeutic benefits, there are some side effects to be aware of with ultrasound therapy.

According to the Radiological Society of North America
The general practice of ultrasound therapy is regarded as safe and effective, but there have been some minor cases of physical pain due to “CAVITATION”

Described as a burning feeling, cavitation is caused by the heating of the gas contained in tissue cell nuclei. This can result in difficulty breathing, extreme confusion and disorientation, nausea.

WARNING!!

If any session of ultrasound therapy causes physical discomfort, immediately stop treatment.

Prolonged exposure to maladjusted ultrasound frequencies can cause SERIOUS tissue and neurological damage. Dizziness and disorientation are symptoms of overexposure to ultrasound frequencies!

THE BIG PROBLEM: I did EVERYTHING ACCORDING TO THE OUTLINED PROTOCOL AND I STILL GOT THESE SYMPTOMS AND POSSIBLY TISSUE DAMAGE / neurological damage

I believe that I got cumulative damage and I ignored early warning signs, when the heat spots came and heat pinching I just kept continuing the treatment, now I am at a point that I cannot stand anymore ultrasound heat. I never did over 20 mins of ultrasound therapy on a given day, but I experimented with two transducers and that was the first time I got serious symptoms. I believe due to wave interference, waves cancel eachother out or they enforce eachother!

I am looking for other methods of heating, I bought a Far InfraRed small heating pad in order to gauge how my body react on this heat but first my symptoms have to go away.

I managed to increase BPFSL to 200 mm (15 mm gain) and maybe I should just quit all this stuff and close the BPEL gap with girth exercises. I don’t know if it’s worth the risk and if I get the same cavitation heat issues with Far Infra Red Heat .

Do you have any recommendations?

Hello,

Sorry to hear about the adverse effects.
Your case highlights the importance of awareness of the risks involved.
Conventional therapy with a sole transducer rarely produces anything more serious than discomfort.
In fact, despite the post, you have just posted despite the pain and other symptoms mentioned they have not recorded serious complications or burn damages.

The dual transducer therapy instead has to be taken more seriously as there is a risk of colliding wavefronts.
If pointed in the same spot at the right angle the amplification in intensity can emerge.
If pointed against each other standing waves can occur which can cause damage.
Both are uncontrolled situations that should be prevented carefully.

I have personally warned about this many times but it can´t be emphasized enough. There are risks involved conventional monotherapy does not have.

You mentioned going through the discomfort and ignoring the warnings.
Hopefully, everyone understands that there should not be any pain, any discomfort in ultrasound practice.
If there is then there is something wrong with it.

If it is not just occasionally appearing as random pinching you should discontinue and find out what is wrong. Pain is a no-go.

It has been told from the beginning that the ultrasound routine is not just a harmless warming aid, it is a powerful therapeutic tool and should be respected like that.
It can´t be used on daily basis and not over months or years without some time off.

Anyone who reaches 15 mm gain over a short period of time should stop the procedure altogether and get on the decon.

It is that radical transformation on the tissue that the overuse symptoms can arrive anyway using ultrasound or not.
The thing is that I have personally hit the maximum length of the structure, there is no more anything else to stretch forward than the nerves at some point.
This occurred a couple of times at the end of the period. When the nerves are tensioned the ultrasound resonates on them all a long the shaft length.
The vibration plays them painfully like a guitar string. There are limits to at least for the momentary penis elongation that’s for sure.
Therefore there is also a possibility that you have simply severely overworked the penis.
The cavitational adverse effects should discontinue when the treatment is discontinued. Secondly, I am positive you should be okay after a short period already.

I suggest you leave it alone for some time(weeks to months), then get back with the far infrared OR singular 1 MHz ultrasound transducer with proper phantom material.
OR in your case, as you have developed such a response, with better equipment with adjustable intensity. With 3 MHz you should be able to work with lower intensity as well, without a need for the phantom. That is off course if you have the will to continue with US

FIR will most probably not cause cavitational adverse effects.

How close can you bring the sensor to the body? If an extender is used and the sensor is underneath?