PE4F High Pressure Pumping: thoughtfulgold

Hey,

nice to see you still going at it.
Back in the day when I increased my intensity after initial conditioning, I used 1/1 too.
I think it is a good compromise as it helps with recovery and rewards this with better EQ in the long run.
In my opinion 1/1 is enough to create pump (girth-)gains when the workload is high.

I did some pumping sessions in the last 2 weeks for fun with a similar approach.
The (manual !) hand pump I used could go up to about 21 inHg and I experimented with pressure spikes.
Like yourself I think my sweet spot was at 17 inHg.
The spikes above didn’t feel right so to say and I can’t see how more pressure could be useful in creating gains.

So I will take the 15-17 inHg as my upper range for future high pressure experiments.

Do you think there is a merit using full vacuum ? Does full vacuum create a different effect I am not aware of ?

Thanks for going so much into detail. Great read !

Yes, I clearly believe that there is a benefit in 20 to 25HG pressure spikes. I did not reach full tube pack before using more full vacuum pressure spikes in my workout.

I do believe that it pushes past the current limitations of my penis to stretch just a little bit. Each time that I do it I see a quarter inch difference in the length of how far in the tube that I can stretch. I do not reach 8.75” in the tube without it. This additional stretch on my left corpus cavernosum I believe must have an effect. I believe this effect is a desired one but that’s just staying the pressure at 20hg or greater is not required for this effect to exist.

Optimally, a few full pressure spikes should coax me into full tube packing and after that I should not need more than 17Hg to achieve full packing of the tube further in the workout. This is optimum and currently only has happened the one time. I have a workout scheduled today and I guess I will have to experiment with it further to see if this can be repeated in the fashion that I wish to repeat it with.

This will be my third attempt with pretty much this exact pressure pattern. I am confident this is the way forward and that I need to moderate my pre-workout behaviors better to achieve my optimum regularly. It is clear that 8 minutes is toeing the duration line that my penis wishes to perform this style of pumping at this point. A 3/4 pack on a less than stellar workout indicates I’m still on the right track but details were missed. So I do believe I have zeroed in on what works for me currently, just exact implementation is tricky.

I am detailed because I want what I do to be understood by all. Much of my journey in the years prior I did alone and did not notate as thoroughly. This is how I try to make up for it to give back to everyone.

Thanks for your valuable insights.
Seems I will need to buy a full vacuum pump too as I am really curious about the effects of full pressure pumping.
Really looking forward to your new sessions.

Great that the overpacking effect exists at higher pressure too ( higher pressure for shorter duration until packin’ and then using lower pressure for longer intervals to get ‘core expansion’).
What I really like about the pe4real style of pumping is how fast this can be achieved (compared to a long low pressure session).

Hopefully you will find a pumping pattern that will give you consistent satisfactory results :)

Love reading such details as they show me you are really in tune with your PIs.
By the way I keep most of my girth work sets at 8 Min net.
Most of the time I reach my max expansion in this time frame (i.e cockring clamping 3x8 Min).

I am confident you will figure it out.
Wish you the best.

Great attitude.

RecentIy I’ve been sticking to 5-7hg but historicaIIy I was going as high as 20hg to fuIIy stretch out beyond 8”. There is no other way to do it that I’ve discovered.

I was not of the belief that this would be the case. However, my own experience mirrors that same sentiment. It goes to show that only field testing can solidify or decry a theory.

It works and further testing and recording needs to be done.

I did a half hour at 15hg yesterday and just touched 8” in the tube.

My E.Q. Has been through the roof since.

After an extra day off and noting my new length size, I’m debating 1 day on, 2 days off again. Thinking as I hit the pressures harder I can relax my days and let the tissues heal bigger.

Routine Notes

1. Edge for around an hour. More like 90 minutes, in this case. Coconut oil used.

2. While erect, perform some massaging for myofascial unlocking purposes with my finger tips. I am mostly erect and poking and mildly massaging and squeezing my fully erect left Cavernous Cavernosum for this. There is a way to pinch and isolate the entire ‘tubular chamber and squeeze it while it is varying levels of erect. This was what I was doing, squeezing the base and top of it to force some blood towards the middle that I want to emphasize. This was around 16 minutes, tube heating up for this time

3. While massaging tissue, warmed tube wrapped in heating pad for between 17-24 minutes.Get it good and hot. 2” tube as usual here.

4. Lube with vaseline. Enter tube flaccid. Used heating pad contact for first 5 minutes of session to preserve warmth.

5. For first 60 seconds, cycling between just at 5HG (0 holes covered) and 10HG (2 holes covered). Up cycles were around 2-3 seconds, down was around 1-2 seconds. Important note: Grime and oil, probably residual vaseline has built up in the 1/16th inch holes and it has raised pressure for the first two holes from a normal 7.5HG to 10HG on 2 holes covered. This is likely fixable but I was mid session and did not mind it.

6. For 60 seconds cycling between just under 7.5HG (2 holes covered) and 17HG (3 holes covered) Up times were 2-3 seconds. Down times were 1 second.

7. For 60 seconds cycled between 15HG (3 holes covered) and 10HG (2 holes covered). Up times were up to 3-4 seconds. Down times were 1-2 seconds.

8. For 120 seconds cycling between full vacuum and 15HG and 7.5HG using 1.5 seconds for full (25-27HG), 2 seconds for 17HG and 3 or 4 seconds for 7.5HG. Down time of 0 holes covered for 1 second at a time, for a 5 second total cycle.

9. For 180 seconds cycling between full vacuum 1.5 seconds (to roughly 24-25Hg before release), to 0 holes covered. 1.5 up cycle, 1 second down cycle. Milking tube away from self during this time.

Total time 8 minutes

Other notes

1. Around 6:30 it started to feel good. Euphoric feeling, great post hang.

2. Glans started to hard pack in tube. Shaft packed 100% on right side, only last inch or two under the glans on the left side wasn’t snug to the tube wall.

3. No pain felt. Inner penis stretch is minimal. I think it may desire a wider tube but i will have to wait and use the pressure to pull my left CC straighter.

4. I milked the tube on down cycles and at least 3 or 4 times in a 60 second span for circulation purposes.

5. I do feel a lack of ‘worked’ at the end of this workout. May scale up duration or pressure this coming week. Change my warmup cycling or duration to 9 minutes.

6. Post pump MSEG was 6.29” again. I feel I’m gonna cement this soon. I feel there is less inner shaft or “core” stretching going on now. I may have to move to the 2.25” tube sooner than planned.

What’s your logic for this thoughtfulgold? The way I see it will take a few weeks (based on your current progress) to expand into the 2” until it becomes optimal size for your curve straghtening. Then a few months in that optimal size tube getting some length gains in both CCs and a very efficient curve straightening effect. And over the entire time you will net a bit of girth gain too, guessing 1/8” to maybe even 1/4”.

The reasons for that size becoming optimal will be when your CCs press against the tutube wall for 90% of the pumping time, allowing good heat transfer from heatpad->tubewall->flesh. Especially for heating your left CC. Also when pressed against the tube walls your right CC won’t be able to do it’s faster/easier expansion thing which makes the curve happen. And also, because when sealed to the tube walls you can use more vacuum for more minutes but with less skin irritation and no risk of over girth inflation injury. That allows you to use more total force if/when needed, to ensure the length gain and straightening effect.

But if you go to the 2.25” tube that is 3/4” larger in girth circumference. There’s no way you will properly pack that as 3/4” tunica gain is probably 1.5 to 2 years of specialised girth training away. So any pack would be a bloat effect from thick waterlogged skin, not giving most of those real-pack benefits you need for your curve. And at high Hg vacuum in a tube 3/4” larger than your shaft, there’s almost certainty of overinflation injury and toughening effects.

I’ve spent the last 18 months hand making many fitted tubes in precise size steps (small steps) and refining this pumping technique of growing into fitted tubes. That 2” tube is about to become your perfect size, and all the good stuff is about to happen! I can’t understand why you would go up 3/4” in tube girth unless you now want max girth gains and to hell with the curve correction? I’m worried dude.

Well, I have to say I appreciate your sharing of a bit more of your science behind your logic.

My logic was by feel. But, I was unlikely to change up from tubes. I had concluded, the inner feeling of the core stretching was less than the initial. And that the vertical stretch from the vacuum on the glans was becoming key in tugging the left CC straighter.

Even if I wanted to change tubes the behavior I’ve seen doesn’t warrant it. Sensations I feel say it’ll happen but unlikely soon. I merely made note that things have been changing. Even my own calculations and theory put me at 2 months minimum in this tube from here. Or, until I score a minimum of 6.3” MSEG and reliably pack the tube without raw luck and routine optimization.

I tossed ideas around after today’s entry but, short of a miracle cement of 6.29” in post pump gains, the 2” tube is here to stay at least short term.

All of this said, share more about your own refinement of this method. Your use of gauges directly attached to the cylinder was only one idea that you had some advanced and intimate understanding of this pumping style. Now, you speak of custom tubes? All very interesting. I am mostly primitive in my application and learning. You have quantified much of how this method is applied and yields gains.

Please share more, RomeoPlus.

There’s a limit to how much I will say, partly because I’m using equipment other people don’t have and techniques that go against some of the forum popular opinions etc, and partly because I don’t want to derail your PE4F experiment by dumping in my techniques and opinions.

I’ve always used just pumping since I started PE, because I work in engineering and understood the forces. A known vacuum produces a known force in PSI applied to the penis, and tube sizing etc controls the applied length pull force or girth stretch force. So my techniques were to apply known length or girth stretch forces, and tweak it to get the required gains.

Approx 4 years back I started making my own tube sizes. Then a couple years ago I got more serious about testing girth gains by growing into fitted tubes and started making the tubes very precise in internal cavity dimension. Then over the last 18 months I got it down to a fine art and put on my final goal girth and got a lot of good data. I’m not going to talk about optimal tube size steps and all my techniques etc because I’ve worked hard to get all that data and may go commercial at some point in the future.

Re your training; I was excited when you started this thread! This forum didn’t have a lot of people doing higher force pumping, and popular pump style here was more like what I consider maintenance style pumping with more gentle forces etc.

So it was great to see you tackle a higher-force pumping experiment and even better with your in-tube photos I saw that the 2” tube is about perfect size (in my opinion) for your desired goal of curve correction. If it was bigger you would be just doing girth training and that high girth stretch force (with little to no side support) would not correct your curve and could even make it worse. And of course if the tube was smaller you would be jamming and not optimal.

Because the tube is JUST larger than your pumped (non bloat) girth, you will have to grow into it a little bit, and once you are pressed against the walls the girth stretch force (in PSI) will reduce because of wall support. So, if your pumping style is correct you will quickly grow into the tube until it is snug, but you should get some months after that before you get too many jamming problems, especially if you tailor your pumping to optimise the length pull, which is what you need for curve correction anyway. And some length gains, which you said are desirable.

Once the tube gets “snug” it will still be larger than your first minute pumped size, but you will reliably pack it after a few minutes each time and then the heat transfer from the heat pad into your left CC (or both) will be great, then you can hold the higher vac Hg force for a very effective CC length stretch (up to 40+ pounds pull force from calc early in the thread). So then you have the perfect situation for getting some length gain and continual curve improvement. And the good thing is that it should be very much the same each time you pump, because your pumping is optimised for length not girth at that point and the tube should remain the optimal size for some time.

Re your routine I’ve been trying hard not to just jump in and “tell you what to do” because that’s so rude and arrogant and disruptive etc, and that experiment is your baby, not mine. I have a huge respect for the time and effort you put into your experiments and written threads, and I cringe a bit when looking in this cool thread to see that I’ve jumped in shooting my mouth off all the time. But it’s so hard to stay quiet when I am enjoying and appreciating your experiment and I think I have a tip that might be of value.

So in the interest of throwing my thoughts on fitted tube pumping into the mix, for you to sift through and see if you can use any of it, here goes. :)

When you packed the tube a couple sessions back with no bloat you got a bit more tunica girth than your normal size. That means for a period of time afterward your tunica is larger, softer, weaker etc. Then over hours it will slowly shrink and heal. Then after that if your next pump session is too far away you are trying to expand the tunica again, but now it is adapted, probably back to the same size, and may be a bit tougher. So in my experience there is a “window of opportunity” after causing an overstretch event.

If you train again within that window, your tunica is still softer, larger and weaker. This is a known principle in sports stretching and martial arts stretching etc. So training with a higher frequency means you can keep the tunica stretched larger and you will get a very reliable tube fill, and some initial girth gain since at this point we are talking tunica girth stretch of course. Part of the problem with this higher frequency technique is that you risk getting too much trauma (very common in PE with high pump forces). But your fitted tube prevents too much girth overstretch because of the wall support at a fixed girth. So you can see why I put so much importance on the tube size. And of course it will be up to you to monitor indicators so you don’t overstretch in length etc. So with higher freq training you have to keep an expert eye on forces to allow for when those tissues are softer and weaker.

So for tips I would suggest;
1. Not so much edging time.
2. Get heat into the flesh before pumping.
3. A quick massage to soften the flesh before pumping.
4. Working up to more minutes, as tunica soften takes time, not just force.
5. More minutes probably will require much less force, like keep it under 17 inHg.
6. (most important) Increase frequency a lot! I consider once a day to be barely inside that window of opportunity.

Please just consider that as stuff I’m just “throwing in the mix”. You know you own body and adaptive mechanisms better than anyone, and you have your own preferred style of training and your own lifestyle requirements. We’re all different and there’s many paths to big.

What you had let on previously already left me the pieces that said you were an engineer, likely mechanical, molding tubes with CAD/CAM. That you had been mathing forces and time with gauged work, exacting to each tube. That this work has an optimal gains rate just like the original PE4F had decoded and you also have, with a frenulum injury from “growing too fast”, that can be harnessed and repeated with precision.

Most of your activity since you have been registered has been on this thread alone, suggesting a disproportionate interested in it. Either meaning you were eagerly watching and learning or were interested in helping me with your experience. Your admittance to being pump only early on before your background started leaking out with some of your measurement references started me putting the pieces together. I appreciate what you have shared thus far and do hope you’ll continue to do so.

Your tips generally are helpful but without context were more like prophecy than hints. Your pedigree is obvious but I don’t test without knowledge that jives with what I know. This makes it easier to take what you say with more trust.

1. Optimum seems around 30 minutes if EQ is good. It’s been tough to calibrate.

2.Trustijg my current IR lamp is hard. I would like a good IR heater. Safer and stronger area heat and an IR heat pad.

3. Massage for 11 minutes seems optimum. Technique has been nearly mastered.

4. I have tossed minutes vs. sessions up. Minutes are difficult now, physically. Sessions, I think are more doable.

5. Minimum full stretch for me is at 12-13HG if I have gotten there in session. I’ll experiment with it in the higher minute gsmbits. Sessions, I’ve been leaning towards.

6. What you spoke on regarding opportunity window has been matching some frequent measured trends I’ve noted. Particularly that temp girth gains with zero edema last about 7 to 15 hours. Capitalizing on this goes against my usual recovery rules and I’ve seen a little girth gain from this, very minor as of yet and predict that it can be exploited at another 8 minute session in the 6-9 hour range from the first. I was leaning this and going to experiment this week with it, to try and see how long and how far I can take and hold 6.29” MSEG before gaining some of it permanently. I’ll use this tip to work this concept as a primary indicator of progress.

A 3rd time per day may be viable but it would keep all 3 sessions at 8 minutes for the foreseeable future while likely encouraging near perpetual tube packing. However, time constraints forbid this. I have a very busy life at this point and cannot commit to PE in this way reliably right now, though I may still try.

I’ve run a lot of calculations. Many so far out and so far tangential that they don’t appear in this log. A lot of what you said, with your experience more in view, jives with thoughts I’ve juggled. Thus, this has saved me time and error in experimentation.

I thank you again RomeoPlus.

My Iast measurabIe Iength gains have been using 17-25hg and Iots of heat. I was appeaIed to by many here to back off and try Iess pressure, but havent gained at aII since.

This thread has encouraged me to get back to what works best for me.

Thanks aII!

It is ultimately your journey. Warnings only serve to help those unaware of risk. The rest of us are willing to go on and see what’s beyond.

After some consultation of my notes and comparing my thoughts to RomeoPlus, a hypothesis I posed earlier was tested today. That full inflation to attain full packing, once started is only a 12-14HG endeavor. Results below.

Routine Notes

1. Edge for around an hour. After the first 30 minutes, turned on IR heat and heating pad on tube. Starting at this step gets a piping hot tube sooner and longer. Coconut oil used.

2. While erect, perform some massaging for myofascial unlocking purposes with my finger tips. I am mostly erect and poking and mildly massaging and squeezing my fully erect left Cavernous Cavernosum for this. There is a way to pinch and isolate the entire ‘tubular chamber and squeeze it while it is varying levels of erect. This was what I was doing, squeezing the base and top of it to force some blood towards the middle that I want to emphasize. This was around 11-15 minutes, tube already pre-heating up for 40 minutes by this time

3. Lube with vaseline. Enter tube flaccid. Used heating pad contact for entire session, removing to check tube pack status a few seconds every couple minutes.

4. For first 60 seconds, cycling between just at 5HG (0 holes covered) and 8HG (2 holes covered). Up cycles were around 2-3 seconds, down was around 1-2 seconds. Important note: Grime and oil, probably residual vaseline has built up in the 1/16th inch holes and it has raised pressure for the first two holes from a normal 7.5HG to 8-10HG on 2 holes covered. This fluctuates but is minor, changing my previous note from last session.

5. For 120 seconds cycling between just at 5HG (0 holes covered) and 17HG (3 holes covered) Up times were 3 seconds. Down times were 3 seconds.

6. For 120 seconds cycling between full vacuum and 15HG and 5HG using 1.5 seconds for full (25HG), 1-1.5 seconds for 17HG and 3 seconds for 5HG.
So cycle is 4 holes for 1.5 seconds, 3 holes for 1-1.5 seconds and 0 holes for 3 seconds.

7. For 300 seconds cycling between 12-14HG (2 and a partial 3rd hole covered) and 5HG (0 holes covered) Up cycles were 7 seconds, down cycles were 3 seconds.

Total time 10 minutes

Other notes

1. Around 5 minutes it started to feel good. Euphoric feeling, great post hang. Good pattern here.

2. At 5 minutes, things began to pack at 3/4 on the left and about 85% on the right. To test my theory I made the call to dial pressure down and ride low for the rest of the workout. Hence the 300 second ride at 12-14HG

3. At around 7 minutes, the entire tube was packed on up cycles. Milking the tube away from myself for this effect until full pack naturally occurs is important. So around the 5 minute mark I was milking harder than later in the workout. Theory panned out exactly as theorized.

4. No pain felt. Left hand cramped from squeezing heating pad and trying to continually milk tube so often.

5. Post pump MSEG was 6.33” again. Flaccid girth was 5.9” Edema is minimal.

6. This, is dialed in. It does mean I have to trust my IR lamp for my edging and massaging but I do have it set a distance my penis cannot span to contact it again. The thought is still there, though. It also means starting the cyclinder heat as soon as I start my edging. I may be able to bring those times down if my heat times are maximized.

7. Attempts for every other day or daily shall be made. However, life events are unlikely to be cooperative. I shall do what I can with it.

My favorite pressure is probably around 20 based on your readings. Do you find at around 20 you get the same expansion as at full pressure, but with less stress on the skin?